Radiolab - G: Unnatural Selection

This past fall, a scientist named Steve Hsu made headlines with a provocative announcement. He would start selling a genetic intelligence test to couples doing IVF: a sophisticated prediction tool, built on big data and machine learning, designed to help couples select the best embryo in their batch. We wondered, how does that work? What can the test really say? And do we want to live in a world where certain people can decide how smart their babies will be? This episode was produced by Simon Adler, with help from Rachael Cusick and Pat Walters. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Engineering help from Jeremy Bloom. Special thanks to Catherine Bliss. Radiolab’s “G” is supported in part by Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation initiative dedicated to engaging everyone with the process of science. Support Radiolab today at Radiolab.org/donate.

Duration: 36m
Broadcast on: 25 Jul 2019
Audio Format: other

This episode was produced by Simon Adler, with help from Rachael Cusick and Pat Walters. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Engineering help from Jeremy Bloom.

Special thanks to Catherine Bliss.

Radiolab’s “G” is supported in part by Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation initiative dedicated to engaging everyone with the process of science.

Support Radiolab today at Radiolab.org/donate.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Oh wait, you're listening to Radio Lab from WNYC. Hey, this is Radio Lab, I'm Pat Walters, and today we have the fifth episode of our mini-series G. Last episode, we had a story from Lulu Miller about eugenics, it was all about scientists who were applying the Darwinian idea that species can be shaped by natural selection to humans, to us. Like instead of waiting for nature to choose which individuals of the human species were most quote unquote fit, they thought they could speed things along, and in the process create like a perfect human race, which as we got into last time was a disaster. And at a certain point, Lulu argued that these eugenicists in emphasizing like their one narrow idea of perfection over everything else, they sort of missed the point of Darwin. Darwin talks about one thing, this one ingredient that he marvels at, he doesn't understand why it's there, the thing to which we all owe our existence on earth, variation. Variation, that like what makes a species resilient is difference, but that's a very selective reading of Darwin, you know, turns out not everyone agrees with there. It is true of course that variation is really important to evolution, but it's variation coupled with selection that actually gives you success. So, you know, I disagree with her interpretation. So not too long after we talked to Lulu, I did an interview with a scientist who takes a very different position on all this, and he's come into a bit of controversy. Some people argue that he's taking those old ideas, that certain people can decide which humans are fit enough to exist and which ones aren't. I think you have to be very careful because nobody here is trying to optimize one specific trait or number. What we're doing is identifying outcomes that I think most people agree maybe are not good. And arguably, he's walking those ideas into the future. Hello, okay, to back up a beat. Hello. Hi, is this Steve? Yeah, this is Steve. Hi Steve. This is Pat. Hey Pat, how are you? This is Steve Shoe. I'm a theoretical physicist who also works in computational genomics. Steve's in his early 50s, has short black hair, little wire room glasses, and he says he's been interested in genomics, the power of DNA, really since he was a kid. Yeah, actually, so when I was a kid, I watched too much TV. Is that right? Yeah, this is the 70s. There was no parenting going on. Okay. No, let's say fair back then. And so when I went home in the afternoon, the very favorite thing I would watch was Star Trek, the original Star Trek with William Shatner as Kirk and Spock here, Spock, and in the Star Trek universe in the late 20th century, it took my genetically engineered intellect that allows us to survive. They had the so-called eugenics wars in which some genetic supermen were created. Check out who is this man. By technology, a product of late 20th century genetic ingenuity.

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