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This American Life

898: An Argument

Nikole Hannah-Jones made an argument 10 years ago in The New York Times Magazine that became famous. She wrote about choosing a public school for her daughter, Najya, in one of the most racially and economically segregated school systems in the country: New York City. Nikole chose a regular public school, one that most wealthy and middle-class parents wouldn’t consider, and she challenged other parents to do the same.  She revisits that argument, and that choice, in a series of conversations with producer Chana Joffe-Walt and with her daughter, Najya, who’s now 16 and has her own very different views.  (00:00:00) Prologue: Chana talks with Nikole about what they both remember from being young parents just starting to think about schools for their children. (9 minutes) (00:10:41) Act One: Nikole talks with Chana about Najya’s elementary school and the problems her family navigated there. (15 minutes) (00:25:57) Act Two: Chana talks with Najya about her memories of elementary and middle school and how she felt about her mom’s choices. (9 minutes) (00:31:40) Act Three: Nikole and Najya talk about what changed when Najya pushed back against her mom’s choices for elementary and middle school and got to choose her own high school. (10 minutes) (00:42:08) Act Four: Nikole and Najya talk with each other about the different choices they made and the questions they still have for each other. (9 minutes) (00:51:06) Act Five: Nikole fact-checks her memory against her old emails with Najya’s elementary school and has a painful revelation. (7 minutes)
Duration
1h 6m
Broadcast on
27 Sep 2026
Audio Format
other
And it's Hyra, the quick word before the show starts. So we have this video that I wanna show you. Maybe you heard, 'cause we did so many promos, actually, that we just did this live show on stage in Los Angeles where I told stories and then Vic McCayless and these really talented comedians did improvise scenes based on those stories on the spot. And we live streamed video of this show. And I'm just here to say that if you missed the live stream, you can now see the show. We have posted the video online. It's a really fun show and to watch this for absolutely free, sign up for a free trial, this American Life Partners subscription. And our hope is, you know, you'll stick around after the trial and that you'll love all the bonus episodes and listening ad free and all the other stuff we give you plus we hope you'll like helping us make the show by sending us this money. But if you don't, if you just want the free trial, watch the video, try it out for a couple days, quit, no foul, fine with us. And I think you're really gonna enjoy watching the show we did. Go to thisamericanlife.org/lifepartners and use the, this is a very original promo code we came up with, video. That's right, the promo code is video. It's also in the show notes. Okay, here's this week's show. Support for this American Life and the following message come from Capella University. You know that feeling when there's a spark building inside you that you were meant for more? That's your own drive pushing you towards what's next. Capella University gets that. With their flex path learning format, you can set the pace and earn your degree without putting life on pause. You've built experience and know what you're capable of. Now, this is your time to turn that momentum into more. The only real question is, what can't you do? Learn more at Capella.edu. - Hey there everybody, I have a glass here. So our show today is something that producer Khanna Joffee Walt has been collaborating on with reporter Nicole Hannah Jones. And Nicole's version of this story, which is in the New York Times magazine, is something that many, many people are discussing online right now.

Transcription truncated.

Nikole Hannah-Jones made an argument 10 years ago in The New York Times Magazine that became famous. She wrote about choosing a public school for her daughter, Najya, in one of the most racially and economically segregated school systems in the country: New York City. Nikole chose a regular public school, one that most wealthy and middle-class parents wouldn’t consider, and she challenged other parents to do the same.  She revisits that argument, and that choice, in a series of conversations with producer Chana Joffe-Walt and with her daughter, Najya, who’s now 16 and has her own very different views.  (00:00:00) Prologue: Chana talks with Nikole about what they both remember from being young parents just starting to think about schools for their children. (9 minutes) (00:10:41) Act One: Nikole talks with Chana about Najya’s elementary school and the problems her family navigated there. (15 minutes) (00:25:57) Act Two: Chana talks with Najya about her memories of elementary and middle school and how she felt about her mom’s choices. (9 minutes) (00:31:40) Act Three: Nikole and Najya talk about what changed when Najya pushed back against her mom’s choices for elementary and middle school and got to choose her own high school. (10 minutes) (00:42:08) Act Four: Nikole and Najya talk with each other about the different choices they made and the questions they still have for each other. (9 minutes) (00:51:06) Act Five: Nikole fact-checks her memory against her old emails with Najya’s elementary school and has a painful revelation. (7 minutes)