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So I think I switched books or something. So I do need to finish it. But I did hear... It starts off slow. It starts off literally like how his parents met. Some people told me they started it and couldn't get into it. Just stick with it. Get to when he's like a pre-teen, because it's funny and cool. It starts a little bit too mythological for some people. The best one's read by Priya Nanda. One of his disciples, Jay Donald Walter, reads it and it's great. Oh, great. Okay. Well, I'll see if that's the version that I've listened to or I'll pick it up. But so one of the questions I have was about Jesus as a yogi. Did he travel to India? Did he learn Kriya yoga? And is that how he potentially became what we know Jesus to be? You know, I know that Christians generally think he was just born the son of God. He was born in Avatar. He was born. That was going to be his destiny the whole while because God was going to make it happen because he's the son of God. You know, but part of me does feel like there was a realistic story to Jesus that yes, he became a divine freaking amazing healer, an amazing leader, spiritual leader. But he had to initiate himself. He had to learn the lessons he had to come into contact with things in the very same way that we all do as humans to be able to carry that energy. So it would make sense to me, and I've heard in your book, but also for a decade now about his potential travels to India, where he was known as Isa, and he was studying with, quote unquote, ascended masters, yogis. He may have learned Kriya yoga. He may have tried what they wouldn't have called psychedelics back then, but he may have ingested something or another that gave him spiritual sight, you know. So I'm curious, like, where do you come in on this topic of Jesus as a guy that was kind of a normal dude who went to India, became a guru, so to speak, a remover of darkness, and then returned back to his homeland. And that's all the time I have today. Great talking to you, man. Thanks so much, man. No, I am very intrigued by the hypothesis Jesus going to India, and I do write about it in the book, and no, I think kind of like the preface here with this is like, there's plenty of like mystic channels now on YouTube of people will be like, Jesus went to India and like, I have never claimed that, because frankly, we just don't have the evidence not to not to disappoint. But I'll explain why I'm very, very open to the possibility of, you know, there's a jump cut in the Bible. Right. So he's 12 years old in the temple, teaching to the priests, which is probably not very historical. That's what the Jewish hero and the Old Testament, that's what they do. That's what the hero always does, is they're a kid and they teach authority. So even the 12 year old thing, it's probably not that accurate. But we jump from that to these 30s getting baptized by John the Baptist. So there's 18 years in the New Testament of his life that they're called the lost years of Jesus. Well, what was going on? You know, he was a day laborer, right? So we don't, we have a lot of material about his teaching period, but he wasn't an emperor. He wasn't, you know, it's incredible, frankly, that he became the most famous human being on planet earth, considering a socioeconomic status and corner of sleepy Roman prophets. He wasn't even in the near the capital of the Roman Empire, right? The reason yoga Nanda, so we don't have the evidence is from the Bible, Bible scholars are kind of more skeptical, but they're also not, no, he did not, because they're specifically looking at data. Yoga Nanda says he did, and it's because a few things, essentially when an avatar is born or when like a very high being is born or like their birth, you know, significant kind of astrological things happen, you know, there's signs in the world, the matrix glitches a little bit, right? And the way the yoga Nanda frames is, which is actually true in the Bible in Matthew, I think it's Matthew two one, the magi, which, by the way, what the heck are magi, you know, it's like, what does that, what does that word even mean? It means essentially means like holy, holy men, in Matthew, it's who came from the east, is the actual line in Matthew. So east of Judea is India. What yoga Nanda says is they were, you know, these holy men, these rishis from India saw the signs and were kind of told, hey, come and honor the next avatar. And so the boy, Jesus, when he's, you know, 13, 14, 15, whatever, takes a caravan basically to go over there and learn from them and honor their journey. That blessed his birth. And, you know, I will say too, coming to the skeptics of this, like, it's not that unlikely. We know that there were trade routes at that time. Even Alexander, I don't mention this in the book, I wish I did. Alexander the Great had a yoga teacher 300 years before Jesus. So Alexander the Great kind of connected to Greco-Roman world to India three centuries before. So, you know, there was crossover, there was overlap. The period around, you know, Jesus's time was extremely diverse in terms of this crossing of cultural ideals and around the Mediterranean. It was just a very beautiful overlapping time. And so it's not that crazy. There was a guy, the first kind of theory that came out was a guy named Nicholas Nodefich, who was a Russian who studied into that in the 1800s. And he claimed he visited this monastery called the himis monastery Tibet, where he was allegedly shown a scroll that explained Jesus's visit and study and so on. When I have this scroll, we haven't been able to find it. I do point people to, actually, I mentioned Ramakrishna earlier, two devotees of Ramakrishna were allegedly did the same thing. They went to Tibet, and according to Abbot George Burke, Swami Nirmalanda, did verify seeing the text as well. I'll point people to OCOY.org, original Christianity, original yoga.org. Abbot George Burke, his Hindu name is Swami Nirmalanda. He's a New Mexico mystic teacher who knows mystic Christianity, mystic Hindu yoga very deeply. He's compiled the most exhaustive research on Jesus in India and the potentiality there. So I'll point people there. I also mentioned, you know, I do point to, as you said, I think that's what you're learning to, the Bhavishya Mahaarana is a fifth century Sanskrit document where there's a really bizarre kind of moment which describes an Indian king coming to the Himalayas and saw like essentially a white dude. And he literally says, "Who are you?" And he says, "I come from the land. I preached the Dharma to the non-Indians. And I asked human beings to serve the Lord. I suffered. It's very Jesus-like and it's like a totally different culture and totally different seeing that kind of put him in there. So, you know, it's very, it's very cool and interesting. And I think it explains a lot of the mystic Jesus, the Luke 1721 Jesus, the kingdom it was within you, Jesus that I like and subscribe to in my interpretations of him as a mystic more so than the Fire and Brimstone guy that America created. I agree. Yeah, to me, it feels like there is a bright side to seeing Jesus as a man who achieved what he achieved and not this one of one of all time dude that God freaking like plopped down with his divine hand. And this guy is going to be the most famous guy ever. And he's got my power backing him. He's got me and I've got him right now. He's ready to roll. You know, he didn't have, he doesn't have to learn anything. He knows it all inherently. I don't know. You know, I think it's there's a there's a lot to gain from seeing him as a normal person who was able to transform himself so thoroughly that he became what he became because that gives us the notion that it's possible within ourselves as well. And not that we have to put all the faith in some other guy, you know, it almost invalidates him in some way to say he didn't have to. You know, it's like, it even kind of takes away some blood, sweat, and tears and hard work of his own inner journey that he went through, you know, in my view to say, oh, no, he just he's God and was always in the, you know, yeah, I, you know, yeah, the book is called The Richest Hands the Lies. I have issues with institutional Christian doctrine. And now I do my best, Matt. I in the book, I point to, you know, a variety of verses in the New Testament and also in Thomas, which is extremely important book about Jesus's teachings that we discovered last century that are all pointing to what you just said that, you know, self discovery and self inquiry of like finding the divine in your heart and kind of back to the very, very earlier point that I made, like, that sounds just like Milarepa. That sounds just like Rumi. That sounds just like Anandami Ma. That sounds like all these different men and women. It's like once you, once you study, again, once you do the Bible scholarship of it and the world mystics, it's like it's almost like frustrating because it's so apparent that he was a mystic master. He just, he was somebody who broke the veil and founded in himself and taught us how to find it in others. And for some reason, yeah, it's just that the politics of that period, the politics of the needs of his community that, you know, essentially modulated his message in order to gain momentum as a system, you know, created this, this watered down thing that doesn't really represent what he was trying to say. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and it comes up that I feel like we would do Jesus's spirit and we would do Jesus proud, so to speak, by becoming more like him than to remain ourselves and just ask for forgiveness while we constantly fuck up. I saw that in the church as I was becoming agnostic. It's just like, oh, so you can be a piece of shit. And as long as you go to church and say, God forgive me, it's all good. Something never clicked about that. I was like, no, you should actually be good. And then when you go to church, it's even better because like, it's charging you up to continue to be good. And it's just such a hard thing. You know what I mean? Well, and also, you know, to your point, like Christianity, especially, you know, global, but even American Christianity is not a monolith. There's, you know, thousands of denominations. There's hundreds of thousands of churches. And so there's a spectrum, right? There's there's there's there's communities and human beings and Christianity that are so, you know, so proximate to the true divine path and the real teaching. And I honored them and I honored that. And, and there's so many that are on the other end of it. And, you know, I think the headlines and, you know, the hypocrisy and everything that we're all kind of having this deconstruction moment, you know, it's like a big term for it is good. It needs to be called out. But at the same time, I do want to support. I mean, I did food bank work for many years here in Austin. And half the time was with a yoga group and half the times with a church. And, you know, this guy, this pastor, fed people for 30 years every Saturday. And, and it's because that's in Matthew. Jesus tells us to feed hungry people and to comfort sick people and to welcome travelers and to visit people in prison. And they say, and he says, the least of what you did for them, you did for me. And it's because, and so there's real Christians that understand that see the Christ in, in the homeless man that needs the needs of the food. And so yeah, I really, I really honored that. But you're right. It's like, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be an excuse. You know, there's a really good line, which I didn't come up with so many commented this about a year ago, but I was saying it, which is true. A lot of Christian, the hypocritical Christians are, they're worshiping the doorway instead of walking through it. Amen. Yeah, that's pretty clear indictment of what's happening. The doorway is so great. It's all golden and ornate. And let's worship the doorway. And the mystics are going, it's open. Exactly. Go in it. I love that. I love that. Well, I actually read a lot more questions than we have time for, but while we have a little bit more time, and maybe we'll have to come back sometime and finish this, but I did want to know, have you ever happened to see these vice documentaries or just YouTube documentaries about like the second comings of Christ, like people have essentially created communities, and they're like, I am him. And these people buy into it, and they move their whole family there, and they give all their money to it. There was one in Siberia. That's the one I'm not going on. Yeah, he probably is, and I don't, I haven't stayed up to date with it, but I just remember being intrigued by that thought is like his pictures everywhere. Could he? Yeah, like, like, what do you think about that? Do you think that someone kind of like riding the coattails or maybe they're a spiritual guy themselves, and they just, they almost have a delusion, and they think, and they honestly believe it, or could it be legit? You know, like, who's to say? I don't know. So yoga Nanda's New Testament commentary is two volumes. It's very large. I mean, it's, it's, he basically took almost every red letter verse in the new in the four gospels, and then wrote like a page or two about it, or more, and references the guitar and references. It's freaking unbelievable. The name of it is the second coming of Christ, the resurrection of the Christ within you. And that's the mystic message is just that the second coming is our own awakening. You know, there's not going to be, you know, the idea of like Jesus on a cloud or whatever, like, if that's all later in vision. And, and, and the fact that there's grifters and opportunists taking, taking that, you know, is not surprising. And the reason is because the ego wants to, essentially the ego is all about specialness, ego is all about making me, I know more than you, I know I'm better than you, and you're, you know, you should listen to me and they and us and them and me and, you know, that's what the ego does. It's level hierarchical. Whereas the mystics see no division. They see complete unity and oneness and equality across all people and all beings. Yeah. So that's a good kind of yardstick, you know, it's like, is this some hierarchical thing or is this a unity thing? Like, and at the same time, Matt, that doesn't mean, you know, I think I've had some like long deep conversations, some of which were at the bar late at night before it closes around like, you know, it doesn't mean be a doormat. You know, I think some people think like, Oh, unity, overall one, like, what about all the bad things in the world and what about all the, you know, evil people doing bad things? And it's like, that, it just doesn't justify the doormatness to me. You know, Tic Not Han is a great example. MLK is a great example in the modern context of deeply spiritual people who stood up against injustice, you know, but what happens is you actually become more activated, typically, you know, sure, there's renunciant mystics that kind of have their, you know, cave meditation for their incarnation or whatever. Maybe that's like, maybe that's like a power up incarnation. We don't know, you know, we're not tuned out with the vantage point to understand it all, but there is plenty of, you know, hardcore, hardcore mystics that are extremely active in the world and stand up against injustice and corruption. And, you know, do so from a sense of compassion and from a sense of love and unity. So I really have to kind of just claim that because I get that a lot, you know, people talk about unconditional love and just forgiveness. That's all nice and everything is tell somebody, you know, knocks your door down or whatever. And it's like, you can, you can still put someone in jail and have compassion for them. Sure, sure. It's actually less compassionate to let them go on doing committing bad acts. Sure, yeah. Like, it's more compassionate to them because that's you, you're operating from the universe's standpoint of giving them a reflective period of contemplation. You know, I'm talking in a vacuum, obviously, because the American justice system is corrupt and profit-laden and all these issues separately. But just for the sake of example, that like, the justice and retribution and so on, like, isn't necessarily unloving. Yeah. Well said. Well said, I agree. I did want to ask to, did you happen to see the show, The Messiah on Netflix by chance? No, I watched some of the, what's the, what's the new one that everybody's crazy about on Angel? Angel? Hmm. The Chosen. The Chosen? Yeah. That's like the big new show. Okay. I'll have to peep it. It's, it's all right. I mean, it's not terrible, but um, Gushins are eating it up. Um, you know, it's more like traditional Jesus shelf anyway. So guys, there's some cool moments. Yeah. Where you're like, oh, these meeting Mary, you know, I would recommend the show, The Messiah. Um, it's, it's kind of about what it would be like to be a Messiah in today's world with social media. Everything. Oh, interesting. Yeah, man, it's interesting. Um, how he speaks, how he acts, um, the miracles. And you know, it leads me to the question, like, could there be a Messiah in this day and age are there? And we just don't know about them and maybe we'll know about them after their death and way later. But it's a, it's definitely an intriguing thought. It's like, could there be a Jesus today, a Lao Tzu today, a Buddha today? You know, have you ever thought about that? I think there's enlightened beings everywhere all the time. Um, well, I mean, one of my favorite podcasts is called Buddha at the Gas Pump. Oh, nice. Which is that idea, right? Um, yeah, I mean, Steven Mitchell, he talked about, uh, Wayne Dyer's translation of Dottaging, um, Steven Mitchell is a Zen teacher translator. Um, he's, he has probably the most famous translation of Dottaging. His Zen teacher, um, you know, super advanced guy fixed washing machines. You know, that was like his day job. Wow. And I just love that image of like the laundromat repairman is actually like, you know, a 99.8% enlightened person. Absolutely. And even to Steven, like, even like washing his minds of, you know, it's like, I mean, my, my Apache teacher was a probation officer. Um, you know, he was like a very deep energy healer and its ceremonies. And you know, he literally healed people with this, with this, uh, in his rituals. Um, and he's a probation officer. He, he consulted parolees. Um, you know, gang unit, uh, guys, I mean, it's kind of like the, the whole idea of around like a Messiah. I think implies like fame and like public notoriety and so on. And like, that's not necessarily that, you know, I'm not, you know, I think there are probably, I mean, there are famous saints. There are, there are, uh, one of the most famous, uh, saints right now who's alive that I do think is either enlightened or close is named Amachi, uh, or Ama. Um, Timothy Conway, I'm a big fan of he, he's, endorses her a lot of mistakes that I like, uh, say that she's very high up there. And she has a global followers is humanitarian. All she does all day is feed people. She gives hugs. She's called the hugging saint. I have heard of her. Okay. Yeah. So she, you know, I mean, it's like they consider her a divine mother incarnation. Wow. So yeah, you know, she has hundreds of thousands, even millions of followers. So they, you know, that those people exist, but also maybe the washing machine repairman, you know, maybe the parole officer is actually doing, you know, aligned with the divine, and the fame aspect of it is just very little consequence. 1000% man. Yeah. I think it's good to be open to that. Um, because yeah, you do never know who you're interfacing with. It's crazy. Like I have had that. I've seen the sparkle in the eye of the gas station attendant guy who I'm buying. Yeah. It's like, I'm buying some blunt wraps. Yeah, I'm about to get lit. But dude, the way this guy just looked into my soul. Wow. Like you could just send something deep in there. You know, well, the non duelist, there's only one of us anyway. So, you know, it's all we're all just masks of the one, baby. 1000% absolutely love that. Well, dude, thank you so much for your time today. There's so much more. I'm going to have to invite you back because we just did not have enough time, but I did want to invite you to, you know, talk about your podcast for a moment, invite people to check out what you're doing and any other work that you want to shout out. Thanks so much, Matt. I appreciate it. Enjoyed our conversation. Yeah. I'm kind of relaunched, reawakened. My podcast is called The New Brand is Karmic Relief. And so it's just YouTube Spotify, Apple Pods. And I'm just kind of still making content around my book at Original Sin as a lie, Instagram and TikTok. And yeah, at Karmic Relief. I think it's at Karmic Relief Pod. My main two areas, I also have a day job. I have a four and a half year old. So I'm busy. But, you know, yeah, just kind of slowly. I want to write another book. You know, eventually I've kind of put so much content out. It's almost a matter of compiling that and kind of, you know, Original Sin is a lie. It's very all over the place. Some people are, some people are like, Oh, I thought the whole thing was going to be out the Original Sin Doctrine. I'm glad it wasn't. You know, it's like, no, the Original Sin Doctrine is like, you know, first few dozen pages and then it gets on into mystic philosophy. But, yeah, definitely, you know, I'll be working on this stuff forever. I've been doing it for 20 years. And as long as I'm pumping oxygen, I'll be pointing people to mystics. Let's go. Likewise, brother. Thank you. Thank you once again for being here. Thank you to all the listeners. And we'll catch you on the next episode. Beautiful. Thanks, brother. Thanks, brother. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
On this episode Matt sits down with Bob Peck. Bob is a festival award-winning filmmaker, author, lawnmower, meditator, and a spiritual student of Christ, Krishna, the Buddha, and Paramahansa Yogananda. With bachelor’s degrees in Religious Studies & Radio-TV-Film from the University of Texas, he has made ‘conscious films’—spiritual & advocacy documentaries—since graduating in 2011. He’s also a Kriya Yoga practitioner through KYI and a certified mindfulness & meditation teacher. His day job is centered around ads and mindfulness in Big Tech. A native Austinite, he lives with his wife and young son in Austin, Texas. Original Sin Is A Lie is his first book.
Was Jesus a Yogi that traveled to India to study Kriya Yoga? Did he activate his Kundalini? How are Religions all connected? This and more on this episode! Enjoy.
Find Bob: https://www.instagram.com/bobpeck
https://www.originalsinisalie.com/
Find Matt: https://www.instagram.com/mattxian
https://www.mattxian.com
