The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 700: Keith Hawk & AJ Hawk - Conscious Competence, Delusional Confidence, Stacking Days, After-Action Reviews, Taking Big Risks, The Power of Compounding, and Modeling High-Standards

Duration: 1h 29m
Broadcast on: 09 Aug 2026
Audio Format: other

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk

www.LearningLeader.com

The Price of Becoming is a USA Today, LA Times, and Publishers Weekly Bestseller!

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My Guests:

My dad, Keith Hawk (also known as Pistol), spent decades leading sales teams at LexisNexis and has taught leadership and public speaking to audiences all over the country. He's the author of multiple books including Get Real Selling. Pistol has that rare ability to be both universally liked and 100% respected by all who know him.

My brother AJ Hawk was an All-American linebacker at Ohio State, where he won a national championship. He played 11 years in the NFL, won a Super Bowl with the Green Bay Packers, and retired as the franchise's all-time leading tackler. Now you'll see him every weekday on ESPN as a co-host of the Pat McAfee Show

Notes:

Key Learnings

Be a consciously competent leader. Pistol's framework: you have to understand the processes of the work you're asking people to do, not just the end result. First-line leaders have to know the work at a great level of detail.

One tactical way to get there: do after-action reviews on both wins and losses. Know why you win. Know why you lose. Describe both in detail. That's how you earn vivid clarity.

Give people vivid clarity. Don't tell your team to "go get the ball carrier." Tell them precisely how to handle each situation. Great leaders are great because they give vivid clarity to the people they're leading on how to do the thing.

Stack days. If I can't win by being brilliant, I can win by being able to endure. Just get up and do the thing day after day. Growing up, AJ and I had an unwritten rule: no matter what we did the night before, we were going to the first available lift. You don't have to go to bed early. But you're going to work no matter how you feel.

When AJ knew he could do it. Freshman year at Ohio State. A tunnel screen play in camp. He read it perfectly, took off, and delivered a textbook hit on the receiver. That was the moment: "Football's football. These guys are all monsters. But I think I can find a way to make some plays."

How to write a book: get up an extra hour early for 200 days in a row and never miss a day. Anybody can do it. You just have to be willing to make the decision, and then follow through, and then follow through again.

My scout team Super Bowl. As a scout team QB at Ohio, I picked the Florida game to prepare like it was the real thing. I wore Rex Grossman's number and arm sleeve. Spatted my cleats. I rewrote the practice cards based on real Florida plays. We ended up being in a tight ball game against a national powerhouse. My teammates came back after the game and said practice that week was harder than the actual game. This is when I learned what is possible when prepared for the moment.

The Mike Nolan $10 bill story. When AJ was in college, the 49ers head coach Mike Nolan needed to tip a valet and asked if he had any cash. AJ gave him $10. Weeks later, a handwritten note showed up at AJ's college house with a $10 bill inside and a thank-you note from Mike Nolan. Follow-through. Attention to detail. Paying people back. AJ never forgot it.

AJ's delusional confidence in Tahoe. AJ had an unlucky drive that left him 254 yards from the pin, in the first cut. Jack Wagner was still on the green in front of us. AJ pulled out a four iron. I told him to wait. He said, "I'm just gonna go, and hit it on the green." He flushed it. Landed on the green 25 feet from Jack. There's power in belief, speaking things into existence, and then doing them.

Irrational self-confidence isn't irrational. Pistol quoted Bill Simmons: "As long as you believe it's possible, it's possible." Regardless of what it is.

My biggest risk: leaving corporate at the end of 2017. I had a VP of sales job, and I left it all to bet on this podcast. Miranda believed in it maybe even more than I did. That combination made it possible.

Pistol's biggest risk: August 1st, 1999. He left LexisNexis after 14 years to go be a public speaker. Two years later, on August 1st, 2001, he came back. Both times on his birthday. His career jumped five notches on his return. Sometimes you have to leave to come back better.

AJ's biggest risk: hiding a broken wrist during a Super Bowl run. AJ refused an X-ray or MRI so they couldn't shut him down. The trainer taped and casted it. He played the whole season, won the Super Bowl, and made the Pro Bowl. He had surgery to repair it days after the Super Bowl.

The best players are consistent. When I'd talk to AJ's teammates in Green Bay about him, they used the unsexy words: "Most consistent guy on the team. First guy in the weight room. Will be where he's supposed to be on every play." He did that for eleven years.

Show up. Every single day. Pistol said it: "Anybody that's been great at something didn't get great on the first day, but they did the right types of things along the way."

Don't grade your kid's games. Grade the effort. "Did you play hard? That's all I care about." AJ said his family doesn't have good or bad games. There's only one question after the game: did you play hard or did you not?

Show them what "hard" actually looks like. Sometimes kids think they're playing as hard as they possibly can when they're not. AJ's brother-in-law Jack Johnson reminded him of this. You can't just say "play hard." You have to describe it. You have to show them. Otherwise they don't know what the standard is.

Model it. Don't tell. Leadership is caught more than it's taught. My primary role as a dad and a husband is to be the model. If I have low standards, my kids will have low standards. If I show up every day, they'll learn what showing up looks like.

Do all the work. Then trust your instincts. AJ's approach to football. Reinstall the defense from scratch every year. Take fresh notes. So when it's game time, you don't have to think. You just play.

The Dinner Guest Draft: Every hundredth episode, we do a draft. This one: pick five living dinner guests.

AJ's table:

Michael Jordan
Charles Barkley
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Palmer Luckey
Denzel Washington

My table: (All dream guests for The Learning Leader Show)

Dave Chappelle
Dave Matthews
Mike Rowe
Doris Kearns Goodwin
Michael Lewis

Pistol's table: (All former guests of the show)

Admiral William McRaven
Dan Patrick
Nikki Glaser
Stephen M.R. Covey
Oz Pearlman

Champagne Moments a Year From Now

My dad: Celebrating his 71st birthday dinner with all of us.

AJ: To keep being present with his kids while they're still young. To slow down and enjoy it.

Me: A good year of college for the older girls in our family.

Reflection Questions

Where in your work are you giving people vivid clarity? Or are you handing them broad general directives and hoping they figure it out?
What is your version of the Mike Nolan $10 bill story? What small act of follow-through could you do this week that someone will remember for years?
Where are you being performative right now, doing something for the audience instead of doing it because you want to be great? What would change if you only did it when nobody was watching?

More Learning

#600 - AJ, Pistol & Ryan Hawk - Setting the Standard

#500 - AJ, Pistol, Ryan & Pat McAfee - Live Your Life as a Movie

#400 - AJ, Pistol & Ryan Hawk - The Life Experiences That Shape Our Character

Podcast Chapters

00:00 The Arena Invite

01:30 Meet Keith "Pistol" Hawk and AJ Hawk

03:34 What Everyone's Been Up To For the Past Two Years

05:09 What We Learned From Robert Saleh (head coach, Tennessee Titans) and Mike Macdonal (head coach of the defending Super Bowl Champion, Seattle Seahawks) About Tackling

08:50 Be a Consciously Competent Leader. Give People Vivid Clarity.

10:44 Inflection Point Stories: When AJ and Ryan Knew They Could Do It

16:33 How Pistol Spotted the Talent Early

21:32 Why Written Communication Is More Important Than You Think

25:21 The Power of Stacking Days

33:06 The Mike Nolan $10 Bill Story

35:24 Delusional Confidence: The Tahoe Golf Moment

42:51 Irrational Self-Confidence Isn't Irrational

43:15 The Biggest Risks Each of Us Ever Took

47:24 Playing Through a Broken Wrist to Win a Super Bowl

50:38 How to Raise Kids With High Standards

54:28 Regimented vs. Disciplined

59:30 AJ's Hack to Beat a Shellfish Allergy

01:06:00 The Dinner Guest Draft Begins

01:21:21 Draft Recap

01:23:43 The Champagne Question

01:26:33 EOPC

Before we get to this episode, I want to tell you about something I'm pumped about. It's called the arena. Great coaches want to surround themselves with other high achievers. Great coaches want to be in a group where high standards are the norm. That's exactly what the arena is, a private community of hungry, driven, growth focused coaches led by the Hall of Famer Sherry Cole, Brooke cups, Garin Stokes, and Eli Liker. These are the people I personally go to to become a better leader. Here's what's different this year. We just finished our first full year. It was awesome. Lots of coaches from all over the country at every level, from high school to college to the pros across more than a dozen sports. Mike Powell with the Arizona Diamondback said, if you are looking for a group to push you out of your comfort zone, give you the tools to become a better human coach and leader. This is the space, it's not comfortable, but you're going to grow and connect. Applications for the next cohort are open now. The arena might be for you if you are a high caliber, high character coach who is not afraid to be pushed and challenged and work on yourself to be better for the people you are leading. If that's you, go to learningleader.com/arena to apply, that's learningleader.com/arena. Welcome to The Learning Leaders Show presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Go to learningleader.com for show notes of this and all podcast episodes. Go to learningleader.com now on to tonight's special episode, every 100th episode I record with my dad and my brother today. We are celebrating episode number 700, incredible. My dad, Keith Hawk also, known as pistol, spent decades leading sales teams at LexisNexus and has taught leadership and public speaking to audiences all over the world. He's also a best-selling author of multiple books, including Get Real Selling. Pistol has that rare ability to be both universally liked by all and 100% respected. It's really cool. My brother, AJ Hawk, was an all-American linebacker at Ohio State where he won a national championship. He was drafted fifth overall by the Green Bay Packers. He played 11 years in the NFL, won a Super Bowl, and was voted captain with the Green Bay Packers and retired as the franchise's all-time leading tackler. Now you see him every weekday on ESPN as a co-host of The Pat McAfee Show. During this special celebration of 700 episodes, we discuss the power of delusional confidence and why this is one of AJ's best attributes, then my dad's framework for being a consciously competent leader and why vivid clarity is vital. We also each share the biggest risk we ever took. We talk about big inflection point moments in our lives and we end it as we always do with a draft. This one got a little weird. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy as we celebrate episode number 700. It's my dad, Keith Hawk, and my brother AJ Hawk. Pistol age. It's number 700. Thank you for being here. Give me an update. It's been two years, September 15th, 2024, since the last time we recorded pistol.

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