The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk
615: Brad Thor - The Art & Science of Storytelling, Creating Surprise, Billions, Ray Donavon, & The Willingness (& Ability) To Break The Rules
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Notes:
Brad Thor best selling author of 22 thrillers...
- Excellence as a leader… What has Brad seen from the military leaders he's studied: Empathy - Understand what it's like from their perspective. LISTEN - Care for your people. Actually LISTEN to them and be there. Creativity. Innovate, and think of new creative ways to solve problems.
- Effective storytelling - Don't start with the weather. Leave out the parts people skip. Don't be boring. This same advice is useful for leaders when communicating with your team. Put yourself in their shoes. How can you most effectively share your message without being boring. The more entertaining it is, the more likely they'll remember it.
- Effective storytellers - Plotters (outlines, Dan Brown), Pantsers (write by the seat of your pants). Brad is a pantser.
- Take the first 4 ideas and throw them out. You need the element of surprise. Create surprise.
- Be comfortable breaking the rules.
- Loves Ray Donavon and Billions for the element of surprise
- "No joy in the writer, no joy in the reader."
- "No surprise in the writer, no surprise in the reader."
- Brad has served as a member of the Department of Homeland Security's Analytic Red Cell Unit.
- Excellence as a leader (McChrystal) - Empathy, Listen, Creativity.
- PBL - Problem-Based Learning. John Bettis (country singer). How do you recharge your battery? International travel. Immerse yourself in another culture.
- Loves politics. Ran for President.
- Advice for writers – "Gotta Keep Writing" Mary Higgins Clark did it for 2 hours each morning before her family woke up. Whatever it is we want to be great at, we have to get the reps. Consistency beats intensity.
00:53 The Art of Storytelling
04:13 Elements of Effective Storytelling
08:26 The Importance of Surprise in Storytelling
11:33 Writing Process and Challenges
20:43 Research and Realism in Writing
27:04 Leadership Lessons from Writing
30:59 The Importance of Open-Mindedness
32:01 Pre-Publishing Feedback Process
35:09 Homeland Security and the Red Cell Unit
39:05 Maintaining Creative Energy
42:38 Political Ambitions and Leadership
50:57 Advice for Aspiring Writers
54:36 The Benefits of Reading Fiction for Leaders
56:43 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
"The mind's like a parisher. It has to be open to work. And if people are going to come to you because they want to make you better and they want to offer you advice, this is where the listening comes in. I always think it's a good thing for a leader. Don't assume you know what's motivating the other person. Keep your mind open. Keep your ears open. And what's amazing is those customers, the ones you depend on, they're the reason you're in business. The customers will tell you what they want more of and sometimes they'll tell you what they want less of. And that's like striking gold." This episode is brought to you by Insight Global. I love the leadership team and the people at Insight Global. Insight Global is a staffing and professional services company dedicated to being the light to the world around them. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people or transform your business through talent or technical services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. Hiring can be tough, but hiring the right person can be magic. Visit insightglobal.com/learningleader today to learn more. That's insightglobal.com/learningleader. Welcome to The Learning Leader Show presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text Hawk to 66866 to become part of Mindful Monday. You, along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world, will receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week off. Right? You also received details about how our book The Score That Matters will help you become a more effective leader. Text Hawk to 66866. Now on to tonight's featured leader, Brad Thor is the number one New York Times best-selling author of 24 Thrillers, including Shadow of Doubt, Near Dark, Backlash, Spymaster, The Last Patriot, and Blowback. Brad has also served as a member of the Department of Homeland Security's Analytic Red Cell Unit. And in 2008, Brad shadowed a Black Ops team in Afghanistan to research his thriller The Apostle. This guy lives an incredible life. During our conversation, we discuss what it means to be an effective storyteller and how we can improve our storytelling ability. Then Brad shares his daily routine to be a prolific producer. He signed a contract with Simon & Schuster to write at least one book per year. And during our competition, he shares how he does that. And then we also talked about all of the military leaders he's shadowed over the years while researching his books and what he's learned from the best of the best. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy my conversation with Brad Thor. Brad, it is awesome to have you here on The Learning Leaders Show. Welcome. I'm glad to be here. You know, you're the first podcast I've done where our backdrops pretty much match up and look like we're in the same room. I love it. I love it, man. It looks good. It looks really good. So I know this may be a little bit different from the typical podcast or media you do because I focus heavily on leadership and sustaining excellence as an individual and then for your team. And you write some of the greatest thrillers that have ever been written. And so I was most interested to tap into your mind of like, how do you do that? How do you write these great stories? How can leaders learn? What can they learn from you in order to become better communicators, better storytellers, to inspire people towards a stretch goal, for example? So to start, Brad, I would love to let's start high level and then we'll drill down. What makes a great story? Okay. I was thinking you were going to ask me what makes a great leader and I was going to roll into. We're going to do that too. We're going to do that too. Just to kind of set the table. I'm the son of a United States Marine. Okay. My dad's no longer active Marine. The Marine Corps got him out of the South Side of Chicago. He went to school in the GI Bill started his own company. I consider myself as an author. I have people work for me. I consider myself a small business person. That's just to kind of set the table because I actually think that your listeners and the viewers of this podcast and I probably have a lot more in common than people might think. But what makes for a great book? First and foremost, my job, Ryan, is to entertain people. So I'm your summer beach read. You take me to the lake. You take me to the pool. It's toes in the sand, book in the hand. And what makes a good book, I think, is something that people
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