Dreaming about changing careers is something a lot of people do, but what happens when you actually make your career change dream a reality? Welcome to Everything Cookbooks, the podcast for writers, readers and cooks. I'm Kate Leahy, and today I'm here with Molly Stevens. [Music] Hi, Kate. Hey, Molly. We're going to be talking about cookbook clubs today. Book clubs in general are things that I've always wanted to be part of, but I can never quite commit. But, you know, the person we're talking with today, Beebe Carminito, she's part of a lot of cookbook clubs, so I have to ask, have you ever been in a cookbook club? I have never been in a cookbook club. I've once was invited to attend a cookbook club gathering that was doing one of my books. They really weren't that excited that I was there, which is fine, but they were so into, like, they had this community around their experience with the cookbooks. That's what it was about. It wasn't about meeting authors, so I mean, it was super cool, because they were all cooking for my book and reading my book and talking about the recipes, and they did this little potluck. And I've thought about cookbook clubs quite a lot, because some authors do some really cool things with cookbook clubs, and I've often thought that's something I could see doing, but I've never really, I've never done it. How about you? I have never done a cookbook club. I mean, I even have a hard time, like, you know, sticking with a book club. I think it's just so hard to keep something consistent going, and the people who make it work really kind of show how important it is to keep in touch with people. It's really about like, hey, let's do this thing. Let's talk about this book. Let's cook from this book. Let's share our food. There's something very communal about it and very appealing. Yeah, and the thing that's really interesting and cool to me is to have a community that you do things with, that your intersection is not necessarily, I'm not saying you're not friends, but you're connecting over a cookbook, reading novels or whatever it is. And it's, I admire it. I think it's really a good way to build community and learn new things and meet people maybe outside of your immediate circle too. Right. Today, we're talking with Phoebe Carminito, but a year ago, I went to a cookbook club. But instead of celebrating a cookbook that had been published, we were testing recipes from a work in progress cookbook. And that cookbook came out this fall, and it's called the curated board, inspired platters and spreads for any occasion. It's Phoebe's first book. She is, I think, the cookbook club, Maven. She's involved with more cookbook clubs, and I can keep track of some are online, some are virtual. And she was writing her own first book. And it's just like, hey, I have this network. Let me test some of my ideas out. And then I can get direct feedback, and we can all just like get together and have some fun on top of it. So she would give you a recipe to make and then bring to the gathering? Yeah. That's brilliant. And it was very organized. There was a spreadsheet. There were links to the recipes. So not everyone brought the same recipe. Of course, there ended up to be way too much food, but it was a great problem to have. Of course. Yeah. It's a potluck. It's like a teaser, too, because that's like, oh, I see what's coming. Right. You're introducing. I love this idea. It's one of the things I love about this podcast is, you know, we've been in our little silos making books, you know, and writing books and learning all this stuff that's going on around cookbooks and around a love for cookbooks and community around cookbooks. And I can't wait to talk to Beebe and find out more about like all of that she does in addition to the cookbook clubs. Right. A little bit of background on Beebe. I met Beebe in 2015 when Cookie Love, the book I wrote with Mindy Segal just came out. She came to an event at A16, a restaurant I used to work at. She just really was interested to meet me. It turned out then there was a mutual friend connection. We stayed in touch. It's almost 10 years later. And I've seen her change from being a line cook, assisting the pastry chef at A16 to becoming a bonafide food stylist who now writes her own books. It's a pretty incredible journey that job at A16 was a career change for her too. She was just dipping her toe into the food business. Right. You already are an expert in your field and you're starting over. Wow. And nine years later, she's got a cookbook. I know. Let's bring her on to hear more from the behind the scenes of how this career change really happened. Beebe, welcome to everything cookbooks. Thank you for having me. We are really excited to talk about your new book, The Curated Board. Congratulations. Thank you. Take us back to when you first got started thinking about cooking and baking professionally. Well, it all started with the Martha Stewart Living Magazine. I was given a gift, the Martha Stewart Living Magazine. It might have been like either her first issue or like a holiday issue. I flipped through the pages. I became absolutely entranced by her aesthetics, her persona, her recipes, her writing. And that actually set in motion a desire to be in the food world. And then I started watching all of her shows and I collected all of her books. You know, this was back in the 90s, but I knew at that point that in some way, I wanted to be a food professional. Really? But like, let's just go into what you were doing with your life then, because you were a makeup artist, right? I was a makeup artist. After seeing that Martha Stewart Magazine, it set me on fire. It set the trajectory and motion to pursue a food career. Did you love food? Did you love to cook? It was the aesthetic. What role did food play in your life before you picked up that magazine? It's really interesting. Food didn't play a huge part of my life until I got married. So that was my first marriage and that was the person that gave me the magazine. One of the best things that came out of that, to be honest. But I was always the one in the family who would help put menus together for the holiday dinners. I would always bake the dessert. It's really interesting because my mom never let me help her cook, but she let me help her bake. So like, if she was doing a cake, a birthday cake, or cookies, or any sweet dessert, she'd have me help her. So up until that time, I was just loving doing makeup, but after seeing that magazine, and I collected all of her cookbooks and watched all of her TV shows, I was like, okay, this is it. I want to be the next Martha Stewart. So I started shopping at William Sonoma. I bought a little crusade. I really started getting into the whole thing. But that was in the 90s. And again, it wasn't until the summer of 2015 that I got my first official start. And that was at A16 restaurant as a pastry assistant. Thank you to Shelly Lindgren, who hired me the story that I remember you were doing Shelly Lindgren's makeup. She would come in because she got nominated for the James Beard Awards a few times before she won. She would need her makeup done for the James Beard's. Is that how you guys met? That is. It's so funny, because I was at Sacseth Avenue working in cosmetics. I had been on my coffee break, and I came back to the counter at the NARS counter. And one of the gals that said, this lady was looking for someone to do her makeup. She's looking for makeup to go to the James Beard Awards. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'll do her makeup. And so she said she was looking for a dress, you know, for the James Beard Awards. And she said when she comes back, she's going to have her makeup done. So she comes back to the counter. She introduced herself and I introduced myself. And she said, yeah, I'm looking for makeup for the James Beard Awards. I was nominated for my restaurant A16. And I said, you know what, I have always wanted to be a pastry chef. And she said, well, why don't you come and do a staj for me. And we'll see what happens. So lo and behold, July of 2015, I did a staj and the rest is history. I worked at A16 as a pastry assistant. So that's how I got my official start. Well, it's an incredible story. I'm just like, but then you made a leap from working at A16 in pastry into working as a food stylist. So that's another transformation. How did that how and when did that come about? Okay, let's go back a little bit. So in January of 2014, I took a six to eight week course at the San Francisco cooking school, like a baking intensive. And then in 2015, I took Mimi Thoracin's class. Oh, she's a food writer. Tell us a little bit about her. So basically, her whole thing is French cooking. Pretta Monge is her, like her blog. I, again, fell in love with Mimi Thoracin. And I loved her Instagram. And I wanted, I was becoming a Francophile. And then she offers these workshops where you go and you like stay in a hotel and France and you cook and you have dinner with like-minded Francophiles. And they serve wine and just sounded so like glamorous and elegant. So I took her workshops. And again, her aesthetic, that's what gave me the eye for wanting to shoot food. Because if you look at her Instagram or read her blog, her photos are just so gorgeous. That kind of led me down that path. Like, I want to get into food styling now. So that's kind of what led me down that route. In 2017, I took an apple pie baking workshop with Susan Spungen who wrote the forward to your book. Yes, a beautiful forward. Every time I read it, I cry. It's so beautiful. The workshop was with Susan Spungen and Yassia Refi. Like, we went to pick apples and made caramel apple pies. Like, it was the whole thing. I had my first aperol spritz. I mean, it was totally everything I wanted to learn how to do and be about. Let me just go back to you're at a pastry assistant at A16. At that point, you've been a working professional for years. And here you are, like starting at the bottom in a restaurant and having to navigate that whole rigmarole. But it also sounded like you had your eye on something else that wasn't specific to restaurants. You were going to learn skills in restaurants, but it wasn't like your end goal to open a restaurant. Is that true? Like, you kind of this idea of food styling or was it still a kind of exploring? Yeah, I still exploring Kate. I wanted to be a pastry chef and I didn't know where I wanted to land with that career. Then I found me me Thorison and Susan Spungen. I'm like, oh, maybe I want to be a food stylist because I took my love, I took my love for makeup and aesthetics, and I married it to food. I have to say, actually, after I took the Mimi Thorison workshop, that led me down the path to like, I want to hone in on photography because her husband's a photographer and he shoots all of her cookbooks and everything. And then I met Susan Spungen and that again changed my life too, because I love all of her movies. She's a food stylist. She's a recipe writer. She's a cookbook author, a prolific author. She's done movies like It's Complicated, Julie and Julia. I mean, the list goes on. I thought, gosh, I want to be a food stylist like Susan Spungen. And that's what kind of set that in motion to be a food stylist. Oh, I see. And you're still working as a professional makeup artist as well? No, not really. I mean, once in a while, a friend will have me do her makeup for like a wedding or like a photo shoot, but I don't really have the time anymore to do makeup artistry. So after you left A16, you're really transitioning into a professional life as a food stylist, basically. Yes. So what happened after A16, I went to Marla Bakery. I met Molly de Cudro, who is a food photographer. I sent her an email, like the cold call email and said, I want to get into food styling. If you ever have it to where you need an assistant, I would love to be on set and just I'll do anything you need. I just want to learn the craft. She was shooting Leslie Jonah's book, Feed Your People. And I came to came on set and I did like two or three shoots with her. And that's, again, another thing that like really catapulted me into the food styling world. Yeah. Molly de Cudro has a huge impact on my life as well. And Leslie Jonah, of course. I remember when we spoke with Marla Vazquez, who's a very renowned food stylist and she did assistant work in New York City to learn the craft and make contacts as well. Absolutely. So I did food styling assisting for three to four years. I just thought, you know, I want to do this. This is it. This is what I want to do. Like books, magazine, commercial work, all of it. Pretty much all of it, like a lot of brand work and then cookbooks, anything that had to do with media. I really loved all of that. And then of course, during the pandemic, I started doing a lot of food styling because we weren't on set anymore. So I started working with a lot of brands and doing recipe writing and food styling for that particular brand. So that's kind of how that all blossomed as well. What I'm hearing through all these conversations is just how throughout each step you're building community, because it's one thing to take a class. A lot of people can take a class. But sometimes, you know, you don't keep up with the people you took the class with or the instructor. Oftentimes, somebody wants to do something, but they don't take the time to make maybe email that person and say, Hey, if you're looking for an assistant. I mean, so what I'm hearing is like, you're kind of putting these building blocks together. Tell us about how you got involved with all these cookbook clubs. One thing I think, baby, that you're known for is your sort of this cookbook club maven. You're involved in, I don't know, three, four, I've lost count five five. So tell us about this. Yeah. Well, I started the Get Cooking Cookbook Club with my friend, Steph Whitten, in 2018. So over six years ago on Instagram, all virtual. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but what was the inspiration for starting a cookbook club? I just wanted to start community. I have all these cookbooks. I think I have about 300 to 400 now. I'm like, I need to use these cookbooks. That's what kind of the impetus for me to start a cookbook club. So the Get Cooking Cookbook Club with Steph Whitten at a whisk and a spoon. Whisk and a spoon is her Instagram handle, right? Yeah. And she's a brilliant, also brilliant photographer and stylist. Her photos are stunning. We started this cookbook club in which we choose female penned cookbooks that are globally driven. So you and Steph, how did you meet? We met through Instagram. So how did you connect through Instagram? Because I think that's something authors are always told. Or people who want to write books are always told, you have to build community, you have to be on Instagram, find your people. But some people just do and other people who are like, I don't know how. I find my people. You know, what's really funny, Kate, is I love for handle a whisk and a spoon. And then I think she might have commented on a photo that I posted or vice versa. That's how we hit it off. We would comment on each other's posts or engage. But that's how community is built. Food is the great connector. I'm like, okay, well, I want to do more cookbook clubs. Then I started working with Proof Collective. Proof Collective is a Bay Area Women's Networking Group that are women that are all food and beverage professionals in any capacity, whether it be a photographer, cookbook author, food stylist, recipe writer, just whatever. And then I started the cookbook club for Proof Collective. So that's the second cookbook club. So number three would be the Cubi Cucina Cookbook Club. It's an all Italian cookbook club that I helped jumpstart, which is connected to an online pasta tool shop called Cubi Cucina. And this is a subscription based cookbook club. And I co-host with Sarah Ubertasio, founder of the e-commerce brand, Cubi Cucina. That's driven through the circle platform. So we'd choose all Italian cookbooks, like a Martella Hazan, a pasta grannies, amico Davies, or any of those books. We do each book for two months. So we do six books a year. So that, how many is that? That's three. I got three, I think. Yeah. And all these require you to look at the book, cook from the book, shoot a photo of the book, or do an in-person event. So, yes, you're right. So that's also virtual. So Cubi Cucina's virtual, we've collected it in person, get cooking cookbook club as virtual. Then I have the San Francisco Cookbook Club, which was also started six years ago. And that is co-driven by six or seven of us that are administrators. And that's like an at-home cookbook club where you go to someone's house and have like a potluck over a given theme, say it's either auto-ling-y or it's, we just actually just did a Misha Gurbani's book, Mumbai Modern. Either we pick a theme or we pick a cookbook. And that's like a potluck-styled club. So that's really fun. And that's just for San Francisco residents. And the last one I just started is with the Mechanics Institute, the library here in San Francisco. That's on Post Street. And that cookbook club, we just started, so it's still kind of new, but we just did Maria Ben's book, Forage Gather Feast. This is on a quarterly basis, so we do four books a year. So Viola Butoni is the one who told me about this. She said, "You should start a cookbook club at the library." Okay. Oh, wow. I'll do it. So that's five. That's five book clubs. And I think that's where I can draw the line. I think so. Like, I just want to get into just the behind the scenes work of a cookbook club. A lot of book clubs in general. Molly, have you ever been in a book club where everyone has the good intentions of sticking with it and then? Sure, sure. Within a year? Like, no one's picking up the baton to keep the book club going. They're infighting about what book to choose. Right. It's like, "Oh, I don't want that book. I already read that book." Or, "I want an easy book. You keep cooking the hard one." So what is it like to run a cookbook club, especially one that you've been running for, say, five, six years? What goes into it? So, Steph and I both picked the books. We picked those on a quarterly basis. So we've just picked our fall season. We like to do all women cookbooks, of course. And we sometimes like to do newer ones. And sometimes we'll do even older ones. It really just depends what we want to cook. That's how we choose our books. Proof collective, we typically pick Bay Area Women authors for those cookbooks. We really want to support our, you know, community here. For Mechanics Institute, that's driven through a cultural lens through the library. So Niko Chen, who also co-runs the cookbook club, we both kind of picked the books. For San Francisco Cookbook Club, the seven administrators all get together like three times a year and pick the books or pick a theme. The QB Kuchina Cookbook Club, Sarah and I both picked the book. How big is the cookbook club? Like how many average members? I'm sure it varies across these different ones. Yeah. Well, for the virtual one, we probably have about 20 active participants who get cooking that always post. And we get new members all the time as well on that. QB cookbook club, I think there's 100 members who all post on the circle platform. And those recipes are either assigned or they get to pick their own recipe from the book, which is really great. Proof collective, the most that we've had at an event is probably 15 to 20 in someone's home because that meets in real life. Mechanics, we just started it, but we had 23 attendees at our first event, which I think is really good. And that's also like an event bright where they buy the bundle, they buy the book, they have like a little lecture. We have food, we have a little, you know, like Q&A. So that's still new. So we're still kind of building that business model, but it depends on if it's in real life or if it's virtual, but yeah, they're pretty active, all of them. So a lot of our listeners are cookbook authors. And, you know, especially like the one you were talking about at the Mechanics Institute, where you sell a book to everybody who comes to it. So having your book selected by a cookbook club is something very appealing to a cookbook author, because there's a there's a lot of buy in there, not only getting the book, they're cooking from it, you're spreading the word. So I'm just sort of curious, is there anything cookbook authors could do to better their chances of being selected by a cookbook club? I mean, obviously, some of these are limited because they're it's women only or it's Bay Area, but in general, what are the sort of things that an author might do to make their book appealing? Well, Kate, we actually did wine style and bovet for get cooking. That was something that we really loved the wine and food pairing, and then the bovet with the restaurant. But we also, Steph and I are both ambassadors for Clarkson Potter for 10-speed press, Hardy Grant. So those publishers also send us the cookbook, so that definitely helps a little bit. Sure. Yeah. That also helps to generate what books we do. But if a cookbook author reaches out to us and says, I have a book coming out, I would really love for you to take a look at it. Can I send you a press copy? We'll talk about it. And then if we're both feeling good about it, then we'll choose it. You're not only just talking about the book within your group, a lot of these people are posting on their social media platforms. Exactly. That are seen by a larger audience outside the group. So for say someone like me, it was a great honor to have a couple of my books in the Get Cooking Cookbook Club because then all the members are actually looking at the book. And I mean, there's people in Australia who are cooking from it, there's people in New York City, like they're all over. And then posting what they've made. And then the author gets a chance to repost it and keep that sort of like active community growing or just awareness about your book. So like being part of a cookbook club as an author is a gift really for that. I would think you probably still get more books than you can possibly put into a book club. So I do. Are there certain things in a book that like grab your attention? Well, basically, I like a book that has a wide variety of chapters so that there's something for everyone. If there's somebody that's a vegetarian, they can still cook the dish. I like to make sure that there's a variety of recipes for our members. But also I love that when a book has some kind of a global land or it's diversified culturally, I really like to share that platform as well. Those are the things that I really look for. Forget cooking, we choose women-authored books, which we've done that since the beginning of the cookbook club, which I know that we're going to keep doing. But I just find that if there's something for everyone, we'll have more participation. That makes sense. And if there's a deviled egg in a cocktail chapter, I mean, so I think we could talk cookbook clubs for a long time. And it's just sparking my curiosity about how many more there are out there. They just seem so community-based. And I'm sure there are far more than I've ever imagined. But we really do want to talk about your new book, The Curated Board. We mentioned earlier that's just coming out. Congratulations on that. And then really a deeper dive into food styling. But talk about the origin for your cookbook. When you started on this journey into food, did you think a cookbook was in your future? I never really thought a cookbook was in my future, to be honest with you. Basically, it was during the pandemic. David and I weren't going out to dinner anymore, because you couldn't go to a restaurant, you know, wasn't safe. Friday night was our date night. So instead of going to a restaurant, I brought date night home and date night in. And I would make a charcuterie or cheese or snack board. So every Friday night, we would have that. And I called it Nibbleboard Friday. So that meant that on Thursday, I would try to source recipes. I would make a new dip or a cracker, or I would find a new cheese or something appealing to try on our Nibbleboard for Friday night. I also kind of started basing it off of my get cooking cookbook club to make them thematic and globally driven. Like one week, I might do like a French board and the next week would be an Italian board and so forth. That's kind of what led me to every Friday I would post on Instagram. What's on your Nibbleboard Friday? And I would post the board that I made the week before. Leslie Jonas, bless her heart. She sent me a message on a cold December morning. I was watching the Food Network having my morning coffee. And I got this message and she said, hey, would you ever want to brainstorm about doing a cookbook with me? And I'm like, what? Yes. And this was in 2021. So like a year into the pandemic, I couldn't believe it that she was reaching out. I was like, so excited. And I said, absolutely. Yes. I would love to talk about writing a cookbook with you. And she was responding to your Nibbleboard Friday. Right. Nibbleboard cookbook. Yes. She loved the board idea. And she thought, I think you have a book here. And I thought, I'm just doing what I love. And that's something that I think is really important is if you do what you love, your opportunity will come. Just keep doing what you love. Don't worry about anything else. Just do what you love. So that was in December of 2021. In April of 2022, we started writing the proposal every Friday at four, we'd have a phone call. I would send her the proposal notes and she would make adjustments. And we would talk every Friday. And then so by November of 2022, I had a contract. She started sending my proposal to publishers on November 23rd of 2022, my mom's birthday. I got a contract with Cameron and Company. And then in December that year, we met Kim Laidlaw and she was going to be our editor. And it's interesting because Kim Laidlaw was what set me on fire to start baking as a cooking school. She was the one that taught me that six to eight course I told you earlier about. And Leslie Jonas was the first person that I worked on her book, Food Styling. It all came full circle. It's really interesting how that all happened. Right. I mean, it really does go back to that idea of community and building community as you go because you never know when somebody is going to give you an opportunity. Just for people who don't know Leslie Jonas, tell us a little bit about her background. Leslie Jonas is an author. She's an agent. She's a pappager. She knows how to connect people. She's just an amazing, amazing person. Every author would be lucky to have her as her agent. So she worked as your agent in this capacity. She is my agent. Yes. And she's the one who got me the book deal. It's all because of her. Yeah. Well, it's because of your persistence with these boards. And so I haven't seen the book. It's still coming out. I've looked at it a little bit. But did you know from the beginning it would be because it's a collection for some percentage of the recipes or yours and other percentage are from your community. So there are 67 total recipes. Okay. 14 of the recipes are contributed. And I did work with contributors because I wanted to keep it globally driven. So I worked with Brazil, Kio Loha, who did a Filipino mariander board. I worked with Micah, who did a holla bagel brunch. Eric Lundy, who did an apparel board, Christine Gallery, a dim sum celebration board, Amisha Gurbani did a shot cutery board. I worked with a brand called Anne's Tomb, a Bay Area husband and wife team that have a company called Anne's Tomb. And they provided a Lebanese brunch board. So I worked with several contributors. And of course, Anna Volissina, who did the Boudmo board. So I wanted to really hone in on their voice and keep their cultural recipes alive. And you have your background too, because you're from New Mexico. And I noticed there is New Mexico kind of touches in the book as well. Yes. Yeah. They talk about Christmas style food, how you have red and green chili on your burrito or your nachos or whatever you're eating. And what's the process of getting recipes contributed by other people? Well, first I asked them if I said you have an idea for say, for instance, a shot cutery board. What are your recipes? So Amisha sent me her paneer tikka masala skewers, which are delicious. And she also sent me her samosas and her chutney. So I had to test the recipe the few times to make sure I can get them down. And then I also had to have it in the language of the publisher. So I had her contribute the recipes. And then we went from there. Each contributor did that with me. I'm just curious. Is there a compensation besides just giving their attribution? I did compensate them. I wanted to pay them for their time. Absolutely. As far as the cookbook process, I'm curious to know how you did it because for people who don't know and haven't read the introduction to your book since it's just out, you are working in a small space. Your kitchen is small. Your apartment is small. And something that I think a lot of people think to write a cookbook is that you need a really, really large kitchen that has all the bells and whistles. And what's really nice about this book is you're creating something beautiful in a small footprint, which a lot of people can relate to 450 square foot studio with a 70 square foot apartment. Wow. That's what it says. Yeah. No, I'm impressed. I write that down because I'm like, baby, that's very tight. Well, it is. And it's filled with cookbooks. So yeah, I know. I mean, do you have like an extra haul for the extra cookbooks? Can you lie? We do have a hallway, and that's where all the props are stored. And I have pantry items out there. That's our storage. That's it, pretty much. Yeah. But yeah, it's a 70 square foot kitchen, a 450 square foot studio. We make it work. It's just David and I, we are snug as two bugs in a rug and just make it work. In terms of recipe development. And now it's interesting because if you think about this book, a curated board, you know, a board book is different than say a soups and stews book. The food itself is more contained in a way, but you're still, you know, you're still preparing a lot of recipes and testing a lot of recipes. And I know for myself, when I'm deep into a project, I mean, fridge spaces at a premium counter space pantry space. So what's that process? I juggle a lot. I don't have all the things that people have. Like, I don't have a rice cooker. I don't have an air fryer. I don't have room for those things. I tell people, you know, if you don't need it, don't get it. I mean, you can do this if you just have some creativity and you have some ingenuity and you're passionate about doing this, you can make it happen in any size kitchen. So for me, I've actually, my kitchen table is really cool because it has shelves for storage underneath. And I use my oven for storage when I'm not using it from all my sheet pans and bakeware. I just make it happen. As soon as I get something new, I try to get rid of something. I'm still working on that one. And I just make sure that I keep things rotated properly. If something goes bad, of course, I just get rid of it. But, you know, we make it work. And how did you do the recipe development? I would get an idea and I'd write it down. I have a lot of notebooks and I just jot them down pretty much in chicken scratch. That's how I started writing. And then I put it into my note field on my iPad. And then I keep tweaking it on there. But I think it's just getting the idea and trying it till it comes out, keep at it. One thing that's really hard for me in the first time I tried to write a cookbook was even knowing how a recipe was written. Was that something that you already had practiced with, with the brand work you had done? Yes. Yes. When did those skillset get folded into your food styling skill set? Thank you for asking. I think, like you said, the brand side of it, they have their own recipe, you know, format. So I would contribute the recipe to them and then they would format it. When I first started doing it, I was just writing the recipe. It wasn't written perfectly. I mean, it was written and tested, of course, but it wasn't like in a cookbook format. Another thing I did during the pandemic was I took the recipe writing workshop with Susan Spungen online. And that really helped me hone my craft. Being a cookbook aficionado, not that I am, I'm just saying, I collect a lot of them. I look at how people write the recipes and it just like, oh, that's how you do it. That's how you write it. And so that kind of gave me some inspiration to write the recipes. But when I first started, I didn't write things in order. I looked at some of the recipes that I wrote and like, oh my gosh. I know for me, anytime I've written something and it's published, I can go back to it and want to change it. If I go back to early cookbooks, I wrote the recipes are still functional, but there's just you learn as you go or styles change as you go. And you just know how to do things a little bit more efficiently. Maybe I'm curious to know how you felt when your book arrived for the first time, because I never want to look at it. Because if I look at it and I see something, I know it's too late to fix it. Totally. When I first looked at the book, I wanted to read it cover to cover and I still haven't read it cover to cover. But I'm like, do I want to look at that? Is it right? But it is what it is. And it's my first cookbook. And there's going to be mistakes. I haven't found one yet. Thank goodness. The day is young. But I really think that that's how you cut your teeth, right? That's how you learn. So you may not have read the book cover to cover, but I'm guessing you've looked at all the photos cover to cover, because this is really your wheelhouse is the food styling and making it you dedicate a page in the beginning of the book to things for making things beautiful. And you also a note about make it beautiful tips for making it beautiful. So let's talk a little bit about like specifics of being a food stylist, because we often talk on the podcast about being a cookbook author is certainly one way to have a life in cookbooks. But there are all these other fields that contribute to making cookbooks and food styling is a big one and cookbooks and beyond. Obviously, we talked a lot about brand work and stuff. So how would you prepare for a photo shoot? I typically pick my props first. I want to kind of get a theme. I pick a surface, depending on what the food is, I try to match the props to kind of the food that I'm serving. How do you mean when you say that match the props to the food? Like if it's a French theme board, I would pick French looking aesthetics for the props that I use. I see. Or if it's Italian, take Italian splatterware, or you know what I mean? Like I try to like match the aesthetic to the food. That's kind of how I start. And then I get all my tools. I get my herbs in a glass of water. I keep everything really fresh. I keep a water mister nearby. The bottle of olive oil or vegetable oil with a brush to like make something look fresher. I get like little sponges, like little wedges, like if I need to prop something up, things like that. My food tweezers are always with me. I mean, those are like probably the number one tool that I recommend having. A couple different sizes if you can. You know, squeeze bottles to like drips on things and that kind of stuff. Yeah, I love how you thinking of your makeup background. You have sort of like those, what's the right word? Just cosmetic wedges. Cosmetic wedges. Yeah. Yeah. So I use my cosmetic wedges for my food now that I make up. I also have a whole new set of brushes. So brushes are still a really important implement, of course, for food styling as is in makeup because your brush really dictates how your subject's going to look. So having the right size brushes and that kind of thing. So you're brushing oil, you're brushing moisture, you're brushing. Yeah. Color like if you need that kitchen bouquet. Yes. To make sauces look more brown and that kind of thing use that and tweezers use in makeup. So things like that kind of came into play. Are there any kind of things that you learned through makeup that also affect how you style food? You know, I think more of that than the photography part of it maybe, but like having a glare or not using props that are too shiny. Even if you're doing a subject or somebody's makeup, you want to map them using powder. That kind of a thing I think comes into play, but also just color like the right colors that are complementary, same with makeup. Skin tone of course comes into play with makeup, although it doesn't really in food, but you know, like your surface, that's kind of like your skin tone, that's your base. Right. I'm guessing there's certain things that you do instinctually that have come from a makeup background that you wouldn't even know, except if it was me trying to do it, I wouldn't have that background, that knack. Having things look fresh, I think, or glowy, like for instance, like to catch light, like something that has a little bit of water on it to catch the light, same with like a highlighter on somebody's skin, just keeping everything looking fresh and perfect as can be. One of the things that strikes me about when I've worked with food stylists, the composition, like there's some, you know, some dishes are messy, some dishes are very architectural, but you know, obviously they're different styles for different projects, but putting together a plate, I mean, it's one thing to light it and make it shiny and make it, you know, we're not shiny or whatever, clean up any spills or have drizzles where you want them, but assembling a salad or when you do this with your boards, it seems to be like putting laying out the various, just, you know, the crackers here and the peppers here and having an eye for that and developing that and I'm just, is that something that you naturally just have a gift for it or there are things you can learn about composition that because to me, that's what a stylist really does. They put that little leaf right here or move the green bean so it's just propped us right and showing it off. Yeah, Molly, thank you. I feel that it's, a lot of it's organic, to be honest, if you like, I'll look at it overhead and I'll think, oh, that cilantro leaf needs to be here, but I also like a little bit of mess when I do a photo with styling because I want it to look like it's been lived in. I want it to look like there's been activity, like somebody's just reached in and grabbed a berry and it's fallen off the bowl or fallen off the platter. I like that kind of a and aesthetic, but I also really think you want to have either three or five or seven odd numbers and things. But I think that just having an organic sense of it, I think, is how I feel like I work best. Tell me how you worked with your photographer for your book. Oh my gosh, Marie Reginato. So she has a beautiful feed. Her handle is at Marie Reginato. I've worked with her before. In fact, Alana and I, Alana Taylor Tobin, who's also a friend of yours, Kate. We did a shoot with her for Blue Diamond Almonds and I came just as an assistant back then and I fell in love with Marie and we worked together a few times and then she hired me a few times. I just love her aesthetic. She's had a really vivid aesthetic and very bright photography and I knew from my book that I wanted to be punchy and colorful. We were so happy to get her on board. How did the shoot come together? We did 10 total days, two of them were lifestyle that were shot outside of her home, but we shot at her home. We used her kitchen. I did all the prep here and I had two assistants during the entirety of the shoot, Emily Cooper and Lauren Rubin. And of course, David was my stage manager, stagehand. He made sure I ate and drank plenty of water. But the shoot days, we would do like four menus a day and we did about eight days and we also shot hero elements of the boards too. So they had their own photo as well. For instance, like tortellini skewers or marinated olives, we had some really beautiful photos of some of the hero images. We would also do some food prep at her house as well. And we would just shoot everything on set right there, so it was really easy. And I didn't want to rent a huge studio. I wanted it to be like a home and I just felt it was more cozy. The experience of styling your own book, was it different or challenging, more fun than working on other projects? Yeah, it was a dream come true, to be honest. Yeah, I really knew that I wanted to do my own styling. It also saved me a lot of money. Did you do your own props too? I did. You know, my insistence Emily and Lauren would maybe bring something if they had like a board that they thought might work really well. But it was very collaborative. Like everybody had a part in the whole process. Sometimes Marie would have like a glass that I liked, but most of the props were all, we would schlep everything up there. You know, we'd rent a lift and we would just pack up the car and we'd go to Marie's house and shoot. And it was really great because we had lunch every day from the from the shoot, which was so cool. Oh, nice. Yeah, that's one of my favorite. Yeah. I love that I got to style my own book. I think that's kind of a great sort of like full circle moment because, you know, the book idea started in the pandemic during lockdown. You and David Home alone having nibbleboard Fridays, but you're connecting to community online through Instagram, through your handles, champagne and cookies. Leslie, who you had met in person in the past, finds it. She thinks it's a book. You then connect with other people from your past to help you create the book. And at the end, you're sitting down in a photoshoot in real life with all these people you've met through various cookbook clubs, through various like food, work, and social events. And now you have a book. So I think, I mean, I think a lot of people who listen to our podcast have this dream of doing this. And a lot of them might be people who really want to change their career. So I feel like the story is just a great way of like, Hey, you can just tip away at it. And all of a sudden, all those pieces might come together. Right. It was very collaborative. And as you said, it is all full circle like all these people were in my past who are now in my present and contributed, you know, a part of the whole work. I really love the fact that they were all committed to making it the best they could make it. I really believe that you surround yourself with like-minded people who are better than you. And you have a great team around you. That's the beauty of it, is everybody that worked on this book was just committed to making it the best they could. And that's such a great note to end up. But I don't want to end because I just have to ask, did you try to get it the book titled Nibbleboard? Okay. Yes. Good question. I love the word Nibble, but I can imagine it wasn't going to be a book cover. Exactly. So that was the working title, Nibbleboard Friday. It's catchy, right? It's a fun little catchy phrase. And then when Kim Laidlaw and Ian Morris told me the title at the office, I'm like, I love it. The curated board. Okay. Because that brought into like the artistic experience with it, right? Curating something. Inspired platters and spreads for any occasion. They are all inspired and they are for all occasions. So that really hit home for me as a second title. So it worked out perfectly. Nibbleboard Friday is still, I still use it when I post. But yeah, now that I think about it, it's the, I don't know the book, right? He talked about the shoot being a dream come true. And you're at this moment now where so much of what you first dreamed about over 10 years ago is happening for you. Yeah, it's overwhelming. Okay. Honestly, it is. But it's also exhilarating. Just ask my husband, I'll tell you. My dad used to tell me this, be careful for what you wish for because you just might get it. Everything is happening in my life right now that I've always wanted and it's amazing and it's thrilling. And I am so honored and so lucky to have what I love doing to be part of my career and part of my life now. I really feel that you just surround yourself with people that believe in you, balcony people. There's people that are in your balcony that cheer you on. And there's people in your basement that don't. So you want to choose balcony people. Never heard that. I feel like you're a balcony person and you too, Molly, because you're so inspiring and encouraging. Here's the thing. I changed careers at 53 years old. I made a major pivot. And if I can do it, anyone can do it. You know, it wasn't easy. But if it was easy, then everyone would be doing it. But what I've learned is that you have to retain personal autonomy, self-advocate and be your own cheering section. So you have to be like your number one fan. Yeah. So it's such an uplifting message. Any advice for aspiring cookbook authors? Just believe in yourself and surround yourself with people that believe in you. Again, keep those balcony people nearby. Keep them in your pocket. Don't let them go. Self-advocate and just be clear about your mission and what you want to do. And you'll do it. If I can do it, anyone can do it. I totally believe that. That's awesome. Phoebe, this has been such a delight speaking with you. Thank you for coming on everything cookbooks. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to everything cookbooks. For more episodes and ways to contact us, go to our website, everythingcookbooks.com. The show is available wherever you get your audio. And if you like what you hear, please leave us a review. Any book mentioned in the show can be found on our affiliate page at bookshop.org. Thanks, as always, to our editor, Abby Sarquatella. And until next time, keep on writing, reading, and cooking.
Kate and Molly speak about cookbook clubs and career shifts with debut author Bebe Carminito. Bebe shares what inspired her love of food and her various career changes, from makeup artist to pastry assistant to food stylist to cookbook author. She followed her curiosity, gathering contacts, classes and experience over the years which eventually led to a beautiful full circle moment with this book, The Curated Board. She talks about starting a cookbook club and how that led to joining, or starting, four others as well as the ins and outs of running them and what grabs her attention when selecting a title. She discusses the experience of styling her own book, working with her photographer and with contributors for the book's recipes before leaving us with some truly inspirational advice.
