Islamophobia in America, Then and Now (w/ Rozina Ali)
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In this episode, we're joined by Rozina Ali for a conversation about Seasons of Fury, her new book about the rise, persistence, and changing contours of Islamophobia in the United States, a story she tells through the lives of four very different American families. It's an elegantly written feat of reporting that is depressing, moving, and enraging, and a damning portrait of the bigotry, surveillance, harassment, and criminalization directed at Muslims—long before 9-11 and in that day's wake, a poison in our public life that afflicts us still today.
Sources:
Rozina Ali, Seasons of Fury: Four Families and the Rise of Islamophobia in America (2026)
Spencer Ackerman, "A Harrowing Look at How Muslim Americans Became Targets After 9/11," New York Times, Sept 30, 2026
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All right. Welcome listeners to episode 146 of Know Your Enemy. I'm Matt Sootman, your podcast co-host, and I'm here as always with my great friend, Sam at the Bell. Hello, Samuel. I'm Matt. How are you doing on this beautiful day? I'm doing pretty well. Me too. I did not go to mass this morning, so probably not as well as you. Yes, listeners. I am, I was going to say sky high, but that gives a different connotation then. Depends on what kind of mass. Yeah, I'm high on Jesus, but we are recording this intro right after I got out of mass. So that is what Sam's referencing. And it is a beautiful day here in New York. And there's no really natural way to transition to the topic of this episode from such a beautiful day. Other than it was a really, I thought, gripping conversation about a book that Sam you and I recently read that you'd recommended, our guest was Rosina Ali, who is the author of a new book, Seasons of Fury, Four Families in the Rise of Islamophobia in America. This book was just really quite a feat of reporting. Yeah. And we don't want to steal too much away from the conversation, but I was so impressed with the writing, which we do get out a little bit at the start. Yeah. Listeners, do not be put off at the start. This is not an MFA creative writing seminar conversation. We do get to the substance of the book, but Sam, we are writers, I think, first and foremost, at least in our own minds and encountering such an incredibly written book. It really jazzed me up to talk about it with Rosina, who was such an incredible guest. I mean, I think it was great because obviously, Islamophobia, anti-Muslim bigotry has been a major force in our politics, even in just the past year or two. And we've talked about it on the show a little bit, but we've never dedicated a whole episode for it. So the book gave us an opportunity to do that and really historicize Islamophobia as an unfortunate fact of American political life. But the other thing that was great about it was that we got to read this great book and talk to Rosie, who is so brilliant. And we talk about this a lot in the beginning of the episode. So again, I'm not going to drone on, but it's like, it's a very different sort of book than we normally do on the show because it's written as this very taught and intimate narrative portrait of four families and their experience of this phenomenon over the course of the past 50 plus years. Yes, it's more description than theoretical argument, which makes it tricky to talk about in some ways. You can't just say, okay, give us your argument. Let's hash it out now. But nevertheless, I really love the conversation. And Rosina was unusually poised and thoughtful. I thought, especially when talking about such a shitty topic. And I was thinking, you know, we hadn't really done something on kind of 9/11 and the response to it, which of course, Islamophobia is a major part of that really since our conversation with our friends Spencer Ackerman five or six years ago. But we take up this topic again. And I'm glad we did because I think this had been something Sam had been weighing on both of us. I mean, the Abdul Al Sayed campaign continues and JD Vance, well, all of them are taking every opportunity to imply he's some kind of secret terrorist. It's extremely ugly. I mean, reading this book as Abdul's Senate campaign is happening. As Zorin Mamdani is mayor of New York City, as the kids say these days, this book hit differently right now than it might have even even a couple years ago, you know, it was a charged environment in which to read and talk about this book. And I'm glad we did. Yes, I should say also about Rosina that she's in addition to being the author of this great book. She's a contributing writer at the New York Times magazine and a fellow at the Type Media Center. Well, before we get to our housekeeping items, I want to say thank you to everyone who came out to Jewish currents. Jewish currents live. Jewish currents live. It was a packed house. I don't think there were any seats left. And so we felt very loved. And thank you for coming out and supporting us. I thought David Cleon and Andrea Longchoo are two guests on stage with us. We're both fabulous. And Sam, you were fabulous too. And you were as well, Matt. Thank you. I was glad we put on a good show for
Transcription truncated.
Matt and Sam talk to journalist Rozina Ali about her book, Seasons of Fury: Four Families and the Rise of Islamophobia in America.