Sideline Story

Is Rodri a convincing Ballon d'Or winner?

Spanish midfielder Rodri beat Vinicius Jr. to win the 2024 Ballon d'Or Best Male Player award. What made him stand out among all nominees in a year where there was no absolute favorite for the trophy? Does he deserve the honor? Also in this episode, we discuss why defenders don't often win the Ballon d'Or and whether Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi can be in the Ballon d'Or conversation again in the future.

Duration:: 25m
Broadcast on:: 31 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

(upbeat music) - Hello, and welcome to the Science Line story, your destination for sports news, analysis and discussions, and young one. This week, we're going to have a chat on the 2024 Balance Door Awards. Is it a convincing winners list? Why aren't there many defender winners in the awards? To uncover these topics, I'm drawing here with my co-hosts, Can You and Brandon Yates via video. All right, Rodry has won the 2024 Balance Door Awards as the best male player. I would say it's not a very surprising result. He was the among the favorites, and he's got a very solid result with Spain and Manchester City in the past year. There are many competitors on the candidates list, though. Many fans argue should be the winners instead of some Venetia student here. But if we take a look at the candidates nominated for this as Valentine's Door, it seems like no matter who won the awards, it would not have been so much convincing results for fans anyway. Maybe we're so used to the Ronaldo and Messi era when they do over the dominant force in the awards and a few people without it, they're honest. But now it's kind of a multi-horse race, and we got Rodry this year. Can you, as a Real Madrid fan, yeah, you must be affectionately biased in this case. But you think Rodry deserves the bad end of the awards. How about Venetia's junior? Well, first of all, what a drama. You know, it seemed like everyone was expecting Venetia's junior to raise the final trophy, right? The whole team is preparing to celebrate for his success. Yeah, I heard there was a party prepared for it. And certainly it's cancelled. And news of him to raise the award is everywhere. And even Nike prepared a pair of golden shoes with his names on it. And all of a sudden, bam, the bubble burst, and everything just faded away. And I think just as what a Chinese football fan says online, in football, the last thing you should do is to open a bottle of champagne during half time to celebrate her success. And AC Milan and Liverpool has already taught us the lesson during the 2005 Champions League final. And yeah, as a Real Madrid fan, I am not happy with the results. But actually, I was not very surprised with it when hearing the news, because I think Rodry definitely deserves the award. And I mean, he has been the pillar for Man City, a few seasons in the pursuit of the Champions League and the Premier League titles. And while everyone was having their eyes on Lamignamo and Dinko Williams in Euro 2024, Rodry was actually the biggest contributor to setting the temples of the game and also helping the Spanish team can see less goals. So it's hard to admit, but I think he deserves this award. But in terms of whether he is the best footballer in the past year, I would say there are quite a few options from my point of view. I think trophy-wise, Danny Carvajal is definitely the biggest contender for the award. 'Cause he has won Euro 2024, La Liga, the Champions League, and also-- - Super Cup. - Yeah, the Spanish Super Cup during the past year. And he has been doing incredibly well, both for his club and for his country in critical games. But sadly, as a defender, he didn't receive enough credit than he deserves. But I do think he should be the best player for the past year. And as for Vinnie, of course, it's a pity that we don't get to see him winning. He has been outstanding for Real Madrid for the past year. He scored important goals against Bayern Munich in the Champions League. And also against Dortmund in the final and in the Spanish Super Cup final. The only problem with him, around him, was that his performance was not convincing enough during Cup America and for the Brazilian team. And also, I think his teammates, Bellingham and Carvajal, may have drawn some of the votes from him. And that might be a factor in his loss. But, yes, still, he's very young and he has proved to be one of the best left-wingers in the world in the past year. So, I think winning the Ballandor is definitely on the horizon for him. - I think there are a lot of promotions from Vinicius Jr's side before this Ballandor world was announced. I think there are many fans voicing support for him and they were creating an atmosphere that Vinicius Jr deserves in this award. And it turns out, things really didn't end up that way. Brandon, do you think Rogery deserves the Ballandor board more than Vinicius Jr this year? Or any other players? - I'm not so sure he deserved it more than other players, but I just don't think there were many out-and-out winners this season. I don't think there were any players off the top of my head that stand out and out-shone all of their competition, you know, for example, with the likes of Ronaldo and Messi that have what they've been able to achieve in previous seasons. So, look, I think different players were very equally impressive for different reasons. And I think Tianyu mentioned a lot of those reasons very well. So, for example, if you're looking at titles, Danny Carberhol, what he was able to achieve with Real Madrid and with Spain was absolutely incredible in the past season. I think he was also the man of the match in that Champions League final, which for Defender, you know, in such a star-stud team is also an incredible achievement, seriously influential in Spain's Euro 2024 campaign. Then you look at Real Madrid, though. I mean, there were so many influential players. I mean, the likes of Jude Bellingham, Danny Carberhol, obviously, I mean, Tibo Portois, when he was fit. - Yeah. - You know, and obviously, Vinny was a huge part of that. I think when you look at past attackers that have won Ballander all awards, most of, I mean, you know, obviously Messi and Ronaldo have dominated it for the last decade, or if not 20 years. And a lot of that had to do with titles, but even more so, I think was the amount of goals that they scored. And unfortunately for Vinny, even though he is, you know, arguably one of the most influential attackers in world football at the moment, I don't think there's any players in the world right now that are as threatening with the ball at their feet as Vinny Jr. right now, but he doesn't actually score that many goals compared to other attackers around the world, you know. Look, he has a lot of goal contributions. So he chips in with assists as well. And he's probably the most influential attacker in one of the best teams in Europe, but there's plenty of other goals scorers around the world that, you know, in terms of stats, really outclass Vinny Jr. So when you look at Rodriguez, from the beginning of the 2023 season, for example, he's probably been the most consistent and most influential player in two of the best teams in the world, you know, arguably matches the city and staying. And the best player in the world in his position. And I think since the beginning of 2023, he's played over 100 games and only lost four. So he's been an incredibly influential player, he doesn't grab the headlines. But when you look at the stats and the influence that he has on his teams and the record that the teams that he plays in have because of what he's able to do, I guess that he's been the most influential player in the teams that he plays in success. So when you look at Vinny, he was also very influential in Real Madrid's success, but was he the most influential player in terms of their success? It's debatable. But when you look at Spain and Manchester City over the course of the last season, you would probably say that, I mean, besides early in Holland at Manchester City, I suppose, the most influential and, you know, important player and the player you would like to lose the least if you're the Spanish manager or the Manchester City manager, it's probably Rodriguez. So, you know, it's quite difficult because you can't really analyze what journalists are thinking and it's, you know, it's up for debate and everyone has their own opinions. But if you have to look at why Rodri won the title, I would say it's because he's been the most influential player in his position, the most influential player in two very successful teams. - Yeah, I agree that Rodri is a more proper winner in this is Valento. I'm neither a Manchester City fan nor a Real Madrid fan, so nothing personal here and I don't want to pick up a fight or debate. I mean, Venetius Jr. is definitely a phenomenal player, one of the best wingers in the world and his stats looks more convincing than Rodri's and Venetius Jr. ended up with the most number of votes from fans in this is Valento, I think. But at the end of the day, Rodri won European Championship with Spain and the English Premier League title with Manchester City, both as the cool player in both teams in those title runs. I would say neither team could have won those titles without him. We've noticed how much of a difference there is with Manchester City recently when Rodri is absent with injury, the slump in their midfield is quite obvious. And I think Rodri is the kind of player that his impact in the game is not measurable by stats. And his, as Brandon said, his runway leader in his position. I would say, among all the midfielders right now in the world, no obvious weaknesses. He reminds me of Sergio Busquitz, but he's got better defensive capabilities. But let's check the Ballendoor receivers, Ballendoor award receivers these years. The last midfielder that won the Ballendoor was Luca Modrich in 2019. And the last midfielder before him was all the way back in 2003, Harville NetViet. It seems like Ballendoor prefers forwards and attackers instead of midfielders and defenders. Not even mentioning there have been only one goalkeeper that has won the Ballendoor award so far in history. After all, the forwards have more beautiful stats and their performances are more eye-catching for fans and some journalists. But can you do these Ballendoor outcomes reflect kind of a fact that forwards have more advantages of midfielders and defenders who are more often neglected, who underestimate it in award selection? Well, actually, I think the word of giving committee is actually giving more and more attention to the midfielders and defenders in recent years in selecting the winners. 'Cause from giving the award to Luca Modrich in 2018, a year when Ronaldo and Messi are still at their prime. And to this year, when Rodgeri beat Finis' junior to win the award, I think the committee is trying to give more credit and focus onto the players that are often neglected on the pitch. Their decisions mean that they are thinking that defensive brilliance and awareness are just as important or sometimes even more important than the goals, the pace and the creativity from the attackers. And I think that makes sense 'cause even though Ballendoor is about individual performance, but football is essentially a sport that's a team sport. Yeah, it's a team sport that is about team efforts and no one should be left out or underestimated on the pitch. And defending and positioning are just as important as a goal scoring and dashing dribbling. So yeah, even though I'm still, I'm not happy with about the results of giving the awards to a non-rail Madrid player, I still think they made the right decision by giving the awards this year to Rodgeri. It's a big testament to the ability and the efforts made by those who didn't win enough attention and credit among those midfielders and defenders. Yeah, players on every position should be valued. But as you said, Danny Coverhol missed this as Ballendoor. And I think he didn't even make it in the top three, even though he got so many athletes in the past year with his teams. It reminds me of a say in football, a striker can miss 100 scoring chances, but he just needs to grab one to be a hero. But meantime, a goalkeeper can make 100 world-class saves, but one mistake can make him finger pointed. So it's kind of exaggerated, but it also tells the story of defenders sometimes less popular than forwards than attackers in football, not only in award selection, but also among some fans. Brandon, any thoughts on that? Look, I don't know, over the last 10 or 15 years, I don't know if the Ballendoor all favored attackers, I just think that Ronaldo and Messi were just in a different universe compared to all other footballers around the world, you know, something that was the issue is that there might have been outstanding midfielders and defenders across the globe over the last decade or so, but Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi were just doing things that, you know, football journalists, football teams and football players didn't think was humanly possible. And, you know, they didn't just do it for one or two seasons, they did it, like I said, for over a decade. And I don't think the Ballendoor was trying to favor midfielders and defenders now, I just think we're seeing the end of the reign of Messi and Ronaldo. And they haven't really been too many players that have been able to take up that mantle. Look, I still think there are, you know, I think there's still incredible attacking players in the world right now, but I don't think we've seen as many that are as consistent as Messi and Ronaldo, particularly when it comes to Champions League success. I think in the years when there was a World Cup, maybe that's where one or two questions were asked and other players were considered like Mardrich in, I think it was 2018, right, when he picked up the award. Yeah, yeah. So look now, it might be a bit more than open race because when you look at goal scoring stats, obviously Messi and Ronaldo have dominated for so long. But when you look at things now, there's not, besides maybe Erling Harland and Harry Kane, there aren't that many goal scorers around the world that are scoring more than 30 goals per season, you know. So I think while that might be disappointing in terms of, you know, us, you know, having an out and out scoring hero in the world, it might be a good thing for football in general, particularly when it comes to Ballon de Orb selections, because other players with different skill sets that have the same amount of influence as goal scorers might have a better chance of being considered for the Ballon de Orb, like we've just seen with Rodry and going forward, we might see other, you know, but fielders and defenders be considered for awards if, for example, Erling Harland doesn't win the Champions League with Manchester City or if, you know, someone doesn't score 30 or 40 goals in a season or if a global superstar doesn't perform well at a World Cup. So in World Cup years, I think you'll generally see the best player at the World Cup win the Ballon de Orb, but outside of World Cup years, I think that the net has cost wide open now. Look, I think going forward, I think the attackers that have the best chance of winning Ballon de Orb's going forward are probably Erling Harland, Vinnie, and Kylian Mbappe. But other than that, I think that, you know, if Real Madrid and Manchester City don't dominate in the Champions League, I think that defenders and midfielders now have a better chance than any time in history to potentially pick up a Ballon de Orb. And I think that's very exciting for football. Yeah, but defenders being unpopular in Ballon de Orb's is not an impression from my side in the past two decades. Only one defender won the Ballon de Orb that, but that was Fabio Canavaro. He beat the likes of Rinaldinho, Terry Henri, Zidane to win the Ballon de Orb's in 2006. But it was a World Cup year. He won the World Cup, and he was a champion. But it still seemed very surprising to me that result. Not only because he's a defender, but also there were so many stars there. If we take back, look at the winners list, those years, Rinaldinho, Carcar, Messi Rinaldo, it just tells how difficult it is for a defender to win a Ballon de Orb. How much people recognize the defense of that World Cup winning Italian team? By the way, Jelliwi Buffon won the second most number of votes in that year. That was quite surprising to me, but it's a very convincing result. Brandon, from your side, if we narrow down the scope to the Ballon de Orb winners after the year of 2000, which one is the biggest surprise to you? I mean, you mentioned that Nedved was one of the very few midfielders that won the Ballon de Orb back in 2003. And I think that was a huge shock and an upset because Tyrion Reed that season, part of that invincible Arsenal team, which I don't like to admit as a Manchester United fan, but he was absolutely sensational that season with goals, goal assists, influence over an incredible Arsenal team. Ultimately, they stumbled in the Champions League that season and Nedved had a very influential season with Juventus in the Serie R and in the Champions League, although they did eventually go down in the final if I'm not mistaken against AC Milan, but I think it was a very boring final if I recall correctly and Nedved didn't really perform particularly well there. But I think looking at stats and influence, I think Tyrion Reed had a much bigger influence over European football that season than Nedved. So I think that was a hugely surprising result. Other than that, look, I think there's been toss-ups between Messi and Ronaldo. I know there's been a lot of instances where Ronaldo felt like he deserved the ward over Messi in vice versa, but ultimately during those years, you know, I don't think there were any instances where I think either one deserved the award more than the other. So I just think when they look back at their time together, I think they should just be proud of how dominant they were on the global football stage for such a long time. I think they should celebrate that success together. I think someone that can be very disappointed for not winning a Belondo or award was Robert Lewandowski in 2020 where he welcomed all the sun-ups. Given award, you know, as you'll know, young Gwang as a Bayern Munich fan, he was absolutely dominant that season where Bayern Munich picked up a treble and Lewandowski scored a ridiculous amount of goals. I think he scored more than 40 goals if I'm not mistaken in around 50 or so games. So I don't think there were any surprises there, but I think Lewandowski definitely deserved the award in a season where it wasn't awarded. - Yeah, I think Nedved won that ballon to a partially because he's quite a nice person because of his personality. - Yeah, that's true. That's the thing, you know, there's so many different influences that can have a part in the decision that journalists make. Maybe Nedved was very friendly to some of the journalists that were voting, who knows, right? - Can you what results shock to you the most in the past two decades in terms of bad indoor winners? - Well, there's nothing personal here, but I would say, messy winning 2010, Ballon d'Or is the most controversial event at that time 'cause I remember the most impressive memory football fans in 2010 must be Spain's World Cup win. And the-- - I have countries in Africa. - Yeah, yeah, and the duo of Iniesta and Shavi is definitely the biggest contributor to that achievement, but neither of them got the favor from the award committee 'cause it was the era of Messi and Ronaldo. And also in that year, Wesley Snyder was hugely impressive with both playing for the Netherlands and Inter Milan, especially with Inter 'cause he helped the team complete the historic treble by winning the treble titles of Serie R, the Copa in Italy and the We're for Champions League. But I think most of the fans would agree that the least surprising winners of the years, Messi and Ronaldo, so many Ballon d'Or awards, 13 altogether. And the other reason why Roger just became the first player born after 1990 to win a Ballon d'Or award, so late, in my opinion. But this year, both Messi and Ronaldo were missing in Ballon d'Or nominations despite the fact that Messi won the Copa America trophy with Argentina and Ronaldo just kept his scoring momentum in Saudi Arabia. Brandon, do you think this is something we should get used to now? No Messi or Ronaldo in Ballon d'Or. Do you think they will be nominated again in the future or even win the award? - Look, it's a dark day in football. I think as football fans over the last decade, just seeing Messi and Ronaldo play at the highest level for particularly Real Madrid and Barcelona, it was just a really special time in footballing years, particularly in the Champions League, just seeing the two of them go head to head and just see the incredible things that they did in the Champions League and La Liga and actually with their respective national teams. In terms of this season, look, they're still performing very well for their respective clubs, but the argument could be that they're not playing in particularly challenging leagues compared to some of the other players that have been nominated so that might be, you know, the reason why they aren't on the final list. And yeah, look, unless they introduce, you know, like an old player of the award, like a young player of the year with the La Menia Mall, I don't see Messi and Ronaldo winning another Ballon d'Or sort of title. Look, if they both go to the next World Cup and, you know, have some sort of say over their national side's potential success at another World Cup, they could be an argument that they would be in the Ballon d'Or conversation again. But other than that, I think that the era of Messi and Ronaldo dominance has unfortunately come to an end. - Jamie, what do you think? - The answer is quite clear and I don't think they will be ever awarded. It's sad to say so, but the decision of them leaving Europe brought the curtain down on their era. And I think it's also a good thing to leave the glory in the past and see the emergence of up and coming stars winning the Ballon d'Or. - Right, let's see what the future holds for Messi and Ronaldo in terms of Ballon d'Or awards. And let's see who will be the first Ballon d'Or winner born after the year of 2000. With that, we end this episode of Sideline Story. Thank you so much for joining us. Subscribe to Sideline Story wherever you listen to podcasts. For more information, you can also check our website, radio.cgtn.com. See you next time. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)