(upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Welcome back to the show, my Scars podcast. I'm your host, Derek Duker. Friends and family know that I'm a huge sports fan. I've dialed it back a little from when I was younger so I can focus on my career and health. However, something that is stuck is my hobby of card collecting. As such, several months ago, I was combing through Reddit for some Chicago Bulls cards. I wound up having a conversation with our guests today, Avi Tiwari, and agreed to purchase a card. A mishap with my shipping address wound up prolonging our conversation to several weeks. While he kept me up to date with what was going on with the post office, we wound up talking about sports and our lives. A decade ago, I likely would have been too annoyed with the situation to handle personal conversation with Avi, especially considering we had never met in person. However, these days I know that would have done more damage to my mood. So instead, I extended patience and entertained the idea of finding out more about him. As it turned out, Avi was building a business at the same time I was. He was also working on turning his card collecting into a nonprofit business. By focusing on making this a positive interaction, I found a peer and dare I say, a friend. For those of you out there who also feel isolated and alone a lot of the time, the strategy of trying to turn every interaction with another person into a positive one does help. As a bonus, if you happen to meet the person again, you never know when the relationship could grow from acquaintance to friend or business relationship or whatever. So here's my conversation with Avi, in which we discuss how we met, how his hobby has become a nonprofit business, how that nonprofit aspect has helped his mental health and his advice for anyone looking to turn a passion into a business. First, I know I think it was, I opened up a post in there just looking for random Kobe White and I owed a soon move rookie cards. And I think you left a comment and then we just started chatting. - Definitely, I'm just a huge bull's fan. So I'm kind of always lurking on Reddit, especially on our basketball cards. Sometimes I've seen anyone's trading any bull stuff or anyone's looking for any bull stuff that I might be trying to move for whatever reason. And I think I saw one of your posts and you were like, "Hey, anyone have any Kobe White stuff?" And just so happened to be one of those times where I was moving the Kobe White card and I was like, "Hey, man, like any interest." And I think you were like, "Yeah, very interested, but can have the all about for a while." And obviously we both just kind of went about life and I think I randomly messaged you a couple months later into the summer, like, "Hey, man, any interest?" And you're like, "Yeah, definitely, let's do it." You were like, "I moved some cards the other day like a garage sale." So you were like, "Let me grab it." I'm like, "Great." Didn't realize when we shipped it out that we had put the right address around the city and then we had this whole little fiasco at the post office, but in the process of it, you know, we became really good buddies. And I got to know that you had this podcast that you started and I was very impressed and I thought it was really cool that it was a mental health podcast at that. So, yeah, it's just kind of me rambling there for a second, but I'll let you come back and do it, Derek. - Yeah, it was funny that the, I think you'd sent the screenshot of the shipping address and I glanced at it, saw the first few lines were right and then I don't know what made me go back and look but suddenly at Wrong City and you looked it up and the address didn't exist so we thought it would bounce back and we'd eventually get it. But throughout the whole conversation, both of us really stayed friendly and that's one thing I kind of want to point out for business, not just business owners, but people in general is every interaction I have, especially since, you know, I think maybe you kind of work from home as well so we don't get a whole lot of human interaction all a lot of the time. But I try to focus on making every interaction I have kind of a positive one and kind of selfishly for myself, but the number of times that just a simple brief chat has turned into a sense of connection, but then also sometimes, especially in this case, you know, we become friends. I've done that a lot throughout my personal and professional life, but it seems rare to meet somebody else like that, but with you, it was instantaneous. You know, we connected over the, we would, while complaining about the post office, we would talk about, you know, what was going on with the bulls, you know, following up with that and the whole time, I felt like, you know, oh, I mean, good hands, you know, even though I met you over Reddit and we just, you know, VIN mode, it wasn't probably super safe, but... - That's the beauty of two good strangers connecting, I feel like, you know, you never know when you meet, someone you will meet good people. And sometimes it's one of those situations where you're like, man, I'm in this crazy, random situation, but, you know, you're like, you know, met some good people throughout of it. So, you know, I guess it's worth it. - Yeah, and then once we, I think it was your Instagram page that you had sent me and I noticed that you had turned sports card collecting into not just a business, but a nonprofit, so we can go ahead and get into that. It's called Paks and Snacks, right? - Yep, yeah, Paks and Snacks started it a little over four years ago now. So, right in the beginning of the pandemic, if you will, when I say I started it around March, it was a really good time. And the journey has been incredible. - We had talked a couple of days ago, you said that you kind of got out of sports card collecting for a while, but it picked up right, like around 2018, I think you said, you started? - Yeah, yeah, so always was a big card collector. Started, I started collecting when I was really young around seven, seven, eight. So, my first pack was 98, 99 top series two pack had to come back on the front, you know, R.I.P. to not just great basketball player, but great human and philanthropist himself. But yeah, that was kind of like when I first started collecting was late '90s. And I really stayed in the hobby until about, I want to say really my last year of true collecting might have been around 07, 08. And I think that was Kevin Durant for a year, the Greg Oden rookie year. And then the following year, I still was into it slightly. Now is Derek Rose's rookie season. So, thankfully I was able to pick up just a couple Derek Rose rookies, but there were nothing too special. And at that point, I was kind of like when I left the hobby. And then I want to say around 2017, 2018 was when I was going through my collection again, when I was a little older. And that's when I started to realize like, oh, you know, this is a great collection. However, I'm missing that really nice Derek Rose card or a couple other guys. So from that point, I thought, you know, hey, cards are still actually, you know, fairly cheap. This was before everything kind of blew up again. So I made a list of, you know, my top 10 of my favorite Bulls players. And I was just like, you know, let me go down the hit list. And I think it was like every couple of paychecks. I would grab a card here and there by 10 bucks, you know. That was back before everything kind of exploded. Ironically, you were able to get like a Jamal Crawford rookie card autograph for, you know, maybe eight bucks. But you know, now it's like you might see the same type of card but like for like, you know, a couple hundred dollars. So it's pretty crazy. But yeah, I started picking up some of those guys cards again right before like that boom kind of 2020 COVID period happened. And then I myself kind of always had kind of a mass somewhat of a formidable collection, if you will. You know, like some of my peak collecting years just so happened to be around 2003, 2004. And of course, I was just LeBron James's rookie year. So, you know, I got lucky enough to get my hands on a couple of those rookies when everything was still kind of cheap. You know, you're able to pick up a pack for maybe like five, six bucks at most. And that was like a jumbo pack back in the day. And, you know, obviously COVID rolled around. And just like everyone else, you know, kind of started dusting off your collection and you start going through that stuff just being nothing else to do. And I remember, ironically, like the month before COVID kind of took over everything I traded like two LeBron rookies that were worth a couple hundred bucks for two Kobe White rookies. So, it was a huge Kobe White fan and thought he was going to really take off at the time. So, I was like, let's do it. And then instantly it kind of just ate that and regret wishing I hadn't done that trade. But then it was like a month later, COVID really hit. And I remember I was getting a pizza. And at the same token, you were just kind of starting to see the craze really jump in where we had like LeBron James rookies being sold for like $50,000 a piece. And then I remember at the same time, you know, you have COVID going on, which was crazy. And then I remember I went to go get a pizza from, I think it was a little Caesar's. And, you know, you all of a sudden like you're driving towards there and you see like whole family, like in food, you know, like right in the middle of COVID, you know, you start thinking like, oh man, that'll be safety orders in place. And you're like, that's crazy. You got people buying cards for, you know, like 50 grand. But then you got like these people in the corner begging. And it was like at the time I was a student. So, you know, I went and got this pizza. I went and I turned around and gave him that pizza. I went back to another pizza. Then I remember I was driving back and I was thinking like, you know, long run, that doesn't really solve the problem. But altruistically, I was wondering like, you know, is there that possibility that you could ever create something that, you know, lets you enjoy the hobby, but you also give back and kind of solve this problem. So that's kind of like in that moment, it kind of sparked that interest for packs and stacks. And then at that point, I was, like I said, I was getting land BA. So we just finished up like a whole entrepreneurship section. So I took that, reapplied it. And I thought, let me make my own basketball card packs to sell because packs were so hard to get at the time. I was like, let me make my own repacks. And what I'll do is instead of including gum, I'll include like little kink-at pieces. And then every pack will donate 20 meals to Feeding America. So tried that out. And then what I did was I made it like a batch ago. I want to say like 12 packs. And there was like three chase cards. We were kind of chasing out of those 12 packs. And I believe the first pack had a Jason Tatum rookie in it. And that was like a big chase card. And first set sold out in like five hours. And like 12 or 12 packs were gone within like 24 hours, like in five hours to be exact. And I was like, oh wow, this is crazy. All of a sudden, you know, I helped donate to 40 meals to Feeding America. So I'm like, all right, maybe we're on something, make another 12 packs this time. You know, make them even better, go up in price, be able to donate more. And again, it was like those 12 packs sold out. And then at that point, I kind of noticed I was on to something. So kept it going, made an Instagram called packs and snacks. Appreciated if anyone wants to follow me. And then we kept on doing the repack thing for a while. And I was really more focused on the repacks from kind of a collector and philanthropic standpoint where I kind of had such a deep collection that I was always able to throw in some nice cards. I was always thinking about the people that are buying the packs. And then I wanted to make sure they were finding value in them from the point that we were able to keep on donating more. That was kind of always my goal. And then obviously, you know, with any business venture, just like with the charity, you kind of have to at times, you got to be able to pivot. So at a certain point, you know, the repacks, they were kind of dying down. While we do still see some good repacks, you know, it's just kind of hard to compete with that TR repack and what people are looking to get in terms of value these days. So, but at that point, I kind of also realized like, all right, we're selling a good amount of repacks, but, you know, impact coming from 20 packs, coming from, you know, 20 meals per pack, you're only going to be able to donate so much. And I've obviously been able to donate about 50,000 meals in the past four years. So people are like, oh, wow, how'd you get to that large number? And that was where those pivots kind of came in. And it really helped you just kind of understand like how to grow charity, but also a nonprofit. And I think throughout that process, you know, it was great 'cause, you know, during that really crazy time of uncertainty, obviously everyone kind of was experiencing some level of uncertainty, if you will. But I think when you were focused on giving back that that kind of helped you find that safety blanket of energy, if you will, that was really, that was really huge. And I think throughout the number of years of just kind of continuing to do it, it was also one of those things where you felt almost invigorated every time you would devote any amount of time to it 'cause it was one of those things where after you kind of did start seeing some results and anytime you would tell someone about it, there was like, oh, great, this is wonderful. How can I jump in? How can I help out with it? But not only that, but just kind of once you create something like your own charity, it kind of gives you that extra mission and drive so you kind of keep pushing through every other aspect of life more so. And that was kind of like one of the bigger things for me where I think like that purpose kind of is what really keeps the charity alive, keeps it going where I think a lot of other things we might, if this was like a business venture or a poor profit thing, you know, the minute things got tough, you might have probably given up. And I think that might be one of the greatest takeaways from starting packs and snacks when you look at it from a mental health standpoint, it's just teaches you that that resiliency 'cause you're always going to have to pivot. You're going to have to find ways to be able to kind of like maintain your impact. But then also, I think one of the other great things about launching this charity is you get a lot of gratitude from it, you know, and it's one of those things where instead of just donating X amount of dollars, you devote your time or energy and your creativity to having these great events where, you know, you only do them so often, but when you do do them, they're massive and, you know, just seeing the community of those in the hobby that want to come out and also enjoy the hobby, but do it in a way that they're able to give back as well as just wonderful, going back into that a little bit more. I remember we were like, how do we impact more and how do we donate more in a rapid sense or fashion? So I actually became friends with Charles, we all house cards out in Philly and we became really good friends throughout COVID and unfortunately during that time, we were like, hey, how can we give back and how can we host like a large event? And what we did was we got together with a team of about 10 breakers at the time and me and Charles organized it and we created a Pax and Snacks March Madness event and in about 24 hours, we were able to donate over 10,000 meals to feeding America and that was kind of a, that was like a big kind of pivot where we were able to kind of come and drop like a Hail Mary and we were able to see like the impact and we're able to kind of get some of that media coverage from other people in the hobby. And that's kind of when people were starting to take notice that there was kind of that opportunity to give back and enjoy the hobby. And what was really neat was we were able to kind of partner with kind of some of the larger tight ends in the industry such as show your slabs and they were able to help us in our first event and that was a virtual based event. And then I think at that point, that was when I realized like, all right, I think when we focus on community, that's when we're able to kind of have the most impact. So kind of that point, we kind of shifted our events to be event based, whether it was virtual or eventually as we shifted into doing in-person events. And now what we've really done is we kind of even further transform how we kind of envision getting that community involvement from those in the hobby, but those that might be local in the area where we're hosting, whether it's the western Chicago land suburbs or out in Chicago, you know, we turn our events to be really fun and engaging that way. People really come out and they're having so much fun that they don't even realize that in the process. They're helping really get back to those in their community that need it the most. - Quickly, when you talk about breakers, of course, you know, I've kind of seen that, but for anybody who doesn't understand, can you explain a little bit what a pack break is? - Yeah, so packed break is kind of novel because even for me, like growing up collecting, you would typically just go buy your own packs and break or rip open your own packs. But over the time, packs got really expensive and so did boxes. And that's where the term breaking came from, 'cause you were kind of breaking open a box. But what a breaker does is he'll buy the box, he'll break it. And what it is is, you know, let's say it's basketball, there's obviously 30 NBA teams. So he will divide it up into 30 spots and 30 different people can buy a spot in the break and they get one of those 30 teams. And then when he opens the box of packs, you know, let's say, you know, Derek, you got the bulls, any bull's cards we would pull, you would get those bull's cards. And let's say, you know, I got the Toronto Raptors, any Raptors cards that person would pull, I would get those Raptors cards and so forth. And what he would do is he would kind of divvy up the spots and to 30 spots for X amount of dollars and they would obviously at the time and still do, they would make a really nice profit off the box and they were just kind of taking that profit and just kind of reinvesting it, pumping out more product or they were just kind of taking those profits. And it was kind of like one of those things where I saw like, hey, there's so much profit margin in this, why not, you know, instead take that profit margin and use it to have some fun, rip some packs, but also give back to everyone in the process. - And I really applaud you for that awareness too, because during that time, like you were saying, the cards were getting so expensive and the breaks were kind of getting super expensive. And like we know from, you know, when I was a young kid, I used to go into a local shop here and they were selling cards like singles for 10 cents a piece and that was not, I mean, it's probably been 20 or so years now, but the amount-- - No, I don't think it was uncommon, you know? - Hey, I remember even my first pack being only 75 cents. That's why I think where if you have any listeners right now that are thinking like, how would you get a single card for 10 cents, you know, that was back. But the good old days you were able to buy a pack for 75 cents and if you were getting a really, really nice pack, that might have been like $5 for the pack or, you know? So obviously we don't see those prices a few more. - No, so whenever you collaborated with those, you know, those breakers, I'm sure it really drove the, drove the eyeballs towards your brand and just being able to see, I mean, when you walked out and you saw that, you know, that family begging for food during such a crazy time, like we're all supposed to be inside, but they have nowhere to go to just the awareness to go, well, cards are exploding right now. Like you said, with the profit margin, even though I'm proud of you because there's a lot of people out there that just wouldn't have that awareness and or even the care to start sharing some of those profits. I mean, that was such a time of people were blowing their COVID checks and stuff. Like even I was a little implicit in that. - And I think we all were and that's why, you know, it's like one of the perfect inlets where I saw that opportunity where it was like, hey, we can make some money, but we can also give back like an overly large portion of this and still have some fun in the process. And I think that that part of the mission and vision never disappears in the sense that every year, I have continued to run packs in the snacks. The goal is always, how do you make it bigger and better? And you know, that was kind of always my simple model. Like, how do we have more fun? How do we keep giving back? But how do we do this on a bigger scale every single year? And that's kind of what it turned into, you know, and that's where those useful pivots kind of came. But also you learn so much more about this business, but also like I went back to earlier, just like that resiliency when you're doing something like this for something that is so much more than just like metrics or profit, like your goal is more so based on impact. So I think when you have that overarching mission that that's always gonna help guide you forward in keeping focused, but also I think for me, like when I launched packs in snacks, it was one of those things where I did it to honor and remember my grandmother, but also for me to always understand that, you know, we gotta kind of maintain that level of humbleness, but also do something that's always gonna challenge us. And I think every year the challenge was always, how do we give back more? How do we give back more? It wasn't, you know, how do we make more money from this? It was always, how do we give back more? And I think that's where we saw a lot of the useful pivots come about, obviously with the first March meal madness virtual card show and just collaborating with almost a hobby pioneer, if you will, and my friend Charles Cap out in the Philadelphia area. We partnered on this and I think me and him had such a good time giving back and doing things with charity that he was a amazing person. And he kind of had so many of his own personal challenges and struggles that he overcame that he now owns a couple of card shops that are very successful, but he had so much fun doing that virtual card show with me that when he opened up his card shops, he made it a mission that he was gonna make sure that it was very concentric, very child friendly, but also he would always make sure that he incorporated a charitable component into a shop. And even to this day, we were so good friends and we've talked about collaborating on an event together on the East Coast at some time. And it's one of those things in the past, obviously when I was in corporate America, it was kind of hard to do, but now having my own self employment kind of agency thing, you're able to kind of have that flexibility where you can maybe see those type of things come to fruition, but yeah, going back to just the growth of packed snacks, that was just after doing that first virtual event, it was like, let's keep doing more. And so what I did was we started doing some other types of events that were similar, but they were actually in person and we partnered with our local card shop in downtown Risborough called the Mark's card shop and we were able to open up a bunch of packs and give back. And then in the process of that, we became friends with some other people that we met that really enjoyed what we were doing. And at that point, we hosted another virtual card show towards the tail end of COVID where it was for autism awareness, which was really fun. After that, at that point, that was when I realized, okay, let's really shift focus on doing some more in-person events. And then when I started doing the in-person events at Mark's card shop, I started to think, okay, how can I make my events really unique and memorable and community-based? So what I started doing was I was like, let's turn the most witness activity into one for good. And let's also try and focus on events that bring people together, but we're also given away stuff. That was when I realized, let's do eating contests and let's also have giveaways and a trade night incorporated. So that was when I really shifted focus on what's have community-based events that were in person. And it was in 2022 that I did my first eating contest and it was an Oreo cookie eating contest. And it was, let's see if we can eat the most Oreos and the winner got a number of things from our sponsors who were a hobby armor and slab stand. So at that point, we were starting to get noticed from the industry and the hobby, what we were doing. And they were like, hey, we would love to kind of help impact as well. So we started getting hobby companies involved and we were given away free packs, singles and slabs to the winner. And that's kind of when we started to see that large turnout of people come out and we even made some branded merch where we worked with the Nabisco and the Oreo ID team and we were able to make some packed and snacks Oreos that we were able to sell and all the profits we made went right into feeding America. But sorry to cut you off there, but they were quite delicious. - But how many Oreos did somebody eat that night? - Yeah, so great question. I want to say if I remember correctly, the winner of ours came in around 30 or 40 Oreos within those five minutes. - Holy cow. - Yeah, so it was pretty crazy. And it was so much fun. And that was the first time where we did something really cool in person. And what was really neat was not only did we attract the attention of some nice sponsors, but we even got some really large breakers at the time. We got chicken one of one, the guy that would always dress up in the chicken costumes and rev cars, he was one of the people that was there at the events and we also had some other breakers. So that was really fun. And then the following year was 2023 where it was like, okay, how do we do this bigger and better? And it was kind of 2023 was here in Jordan. It was my third year having the charity. And I was like, let's do something a little crazy. So we gave away a Michael Jordan rookie card reprint with a game use floor piece. And this time I thought, let's do one of our favorite foods that who doesn't love pizza. So we did a packed and snacks pizza polloosa and it was a trade night. It was also pizza eating competition. We had unlimited pizza for everyone. We had a pizza eating contest where the winner got a really nice trophy. They won that Jordan card. We kind of saw the community event of it expand even more and we were able to kind of increase our impact and in that one event alone, we were able to raise about 7,000 meals to donate to Feeding America. Yeah, it was so much fun, but the stress of kind of planning the event was really great in the sense that when you're in school or you're using a lot of your applicable skills like I'm a project manager by trade, you don't really feel like you're using that until you're having to use all those skills, planning an event 'cause event management's really just another form of project management. I joke where you just got to kind of manage everything from the setup to the promotion, to picking out the date, to making sure everything is kind of lined up, but it's one of those things where when you see that level of impact you're able to make at the end of the day where everything's so much worth it but it's so much fun in the process because it's one of those things where when you are trying to do a social impact cause, you really meet so many great people along the way that I think you might not meet otherwise, especially given like today's time where some people are really in that remote work area or we really feel like we're kind of cubed into just work home, work home, if you will. So it's kind of nice where you're able to just kind of meet a diversity of people if you will. And I think that's one of the great things about the hobby that probably reinvigorates most of us is that you meet so many people that you might not ever meet otherwise, if you will. - Yeah, for sure. At a lot of the card shows out here in the Springfield, Missouri area, I don't know them from anywhere else, but when I go to those sales, I just stop at their booth and we catch up and they've chipped me off some free cards of taking huge Ls and trades as well. But yeah, they have people from every walk of life. It's just that way of connecting over sports and a hobby. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - This episode is brought to you by Two Oddballs Creative. People on the internet can be a little bit judgy when it comes to websites, which, to be fair, is a good thing sometimes, especially when there's exchanging of money. However, that means your website design needs to be on point. Web development is much more than just how a site looks. It's also how it performs. A website needs to be quick, user-friendly, and direct consumers to performing your desired action. That's why I trusted Two Oddballs with my website and my logo. To get ahold of the oddballs, just go to twooddballs.com or you can call them at 417-986-6332. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - A few days ago, we were talking about what packs and snacks has done for you, and you've touched on it a couple times here, but of course, we all know that working with a nonprofit kind of gives you a better sense of connection with the world and more positive self-identity. How has that been for you? What have you noticed as far as working with a nonprofit and how it's kind of helped your own mental health? - That's a great question, and I think that kind of comes back to everyone's identity, if you will, a lot of the times, I think some of our mental health challenges come from just how we perceive our own identity, where you might be like, oh, I am my career, I am my job, whereas I feel like I'm defined, not by that, but more so what I do with other things. So that's where a community aspect really comes into play where I think when we look at mental health challenges, where if you focus more towards those community or tribes where you feel a sense of purpose or enjoyment, that's gonna give you the fulfillment that you are looking for. So I think that's one of the great things that acts and snacks gives me, but then not only that, throughout the journey of just like obviously starting packs and snacks and then having to always pivot and keep growing it, I think as for a lot of that, resilience, he kind of came into play where it kind of helped me transcend into other aspects. It helped me kind of use that in other areas, whether it be like my own career or just dealing with my own personal struggles and is just realizing the time that the only way through was having that resiliency and pushing forward, then the other thing I learned in the process of starting the charity obviously was gratitude is very strong and helping you kind of see some light in whatever struggle it is that you're facing where I think I read somewhere a long time ago that when you have a sense of gratitude, it's impossible to actually be depressed. And you'd always notice like, you get like that insane dopamine rush when you were done doing these kind of events and you're like, kind of like, what is that happiness and that's when you realize that sense of happiness you're getting is that the fulfillment of being able to give back and have that impact. And it's one of those things where once you're able to do it once you're like, how do I keep on doing this? This is amazing feeling, but also just seeing what that impact does for others. And not only that, you're able to combine something such as a basketball or any type of sport into that. And I think the reason why so many people enjoy watching sports is oftentimes, you see a lot of those common themes that I've discussed throughout such as resiliency, coming back, pivoting, or in a sense like pivoting sports might be like, you know, different place games or, you know, different lineups and, you know, them coming back and winning the game. I kind of love that David and Goliath story and kind of in the same sense where, you know, we love any good story where we see someone kind of able to give back or nurture a community. And that's kind of been the biggest positive point with packs and snacks is probably resiliency community and impact. And then along the way, just being able to find that a positive purpose where others might only feel like that they're able to find that and their careers or what have you. I think when you do something like this with the nonprofit side of it, it keeps you humble and it keeps you focused. And I think when people ask me what's next for packs and snacks, I think last year's in person event went so well that we overestimated the number of people that came out having, you know, over 45, 50 people there that we were like, all right, let's do this on an even bigger scale. And that's where I took some serious steps after a year for packs and snacks to formalize it, get the 501(c)(3) designation approved. We're in the process. Actually, today we just about to submit the paperwork for both the IRS for the tax exemption. And what was really neat was even my family came out to the last event and my mom was joking. She wanted donuts and chocolate at the next event. So I was like, hey, I think I've got to follow up on what the mom's orders are here. And next event we're planning on doing a donut eating contest. We want to call it Dunkin' Go Nuts trade day and we want to have a little bit of a donut eating contest. And this time we want to have a little more of a fun take on it. We want to have some silent auctions. We want to give away a variety of merch, but also kind of make it kind of more of a collaborative trade show and trade day, if you will, where we're going to have plenty of vendors there that are going to have products for sale, but then we're also going to have a whole area devoted just to trading. And again, like always, focus is just bringing community together and us having a good time or raising some money and giving back as always. What advice would you give to other business owners that are looking to blend personal passions and philanthropy? Yeah, I think the advice to give to others would be don't ever be afraid to start out on a small scale and just stay consistent with those efforts, because eventually you will see it pay off. It's one of those things where for me, I think it's always wild when I think like, wow, I started out, like, you know, packs and snacks is just a small idea in my head where I was able to donate a couple hundred meals to now I look at it. And I'm like, wow, that's crazy. We only are able to do a couple of events out of the year, because I'm so busy. Now that I've really pushed this out, it's like the impact is we've been able to donate 50,000 meals. And I think when you see like that number, that really matters to me more than like, when people are like, oh, how many followers, this packs and snacks have, it's like, you know, so I got only got a couple hundred followers. I think I got around 400 followers, but I think the greatest piece of joy when you look at it from a number standpoint is that impact number one. So like, you know, it's like, it's not about the followers, it's about the impact and back we've been able to help donate 50,000 meals. That's been an incredible journey just for me or just for anyone, you know, it gives a number of people hope. But I think it's fun when you see something that, you know, is what you thought was a silly idea that popped in your head. And then, you know, you were like, why don't we run with this and see what happens. And, you know, here we are four years later and I'm on a podcast talking about this charity that was just what I thought was a silly idea. On my head and went from silly idea on my head to something on paper to let's test this out, to let's keep this going to, I don't want to ever stop doing this. And it's kind of my, it's probably like my way of staying relevant with the hobby and enjoying it because it's one of those things where a lot of the times I think people see collecting it as sometimes to get to a little monotonous 'cause it's always about buying more packs or getting the next chase card. So I think it's fun to kind of incorporate an aspect of how do you always maintain having fun with the hobby? But how do you, how do you stay close to the community without having to, you know, invest all that money in packs but instead you're able to invest all that money back into your community and those that needed the most. - Yeah, card collecting would be a money pit for sure. I can vouch for that. (laughs) - Oh, I think we will experience the money pit of it where, you know, you might walk into the card shop thinking like, oh, I'm just going into a pack of sleeves or some top loaders and you walk out $45 later. Like, hey man, I just got like four good singles, you know? - Yeah, yeah. And talking about the impact aspect of it, as far as, you know, starting out small and not worrying about it. Yeah, I mean, I was just looking up, you know, how far a dollar goes with Feeding America. And there's a lot of nonprofits out there where a very small amount of money can make a huge impact. So I would, I'd double down on that with you as far as, you know, don't worry about the amount of money that you're being able to donate upfront as opposed to what it could grow into. Like you said, you started, you know, a couple hundred meals and next thing, you know, it's thousands upon thousands of meals. So speaking of which, when is that a next event and anything else that you want to go ahead and plug, go ahead? - Yeah, absolutely. So if everyone would like, I'd appreciate it. If you give me a follow on Instagram, we have an Instagram is called @hacksandsnacks. Next event, we're planning an event in June of next year during the championship series. We're gonna be giving away some replica Larry O'Brien trophies. We're gonna be doing a chocolate chip eating contest. Since everyone calls the trophy the chip, we're gonna focus on the chips and, you know, just kind of have some fun with some cookies, some chocolate chip cookies, maybe break out the cookie monster socks, maybe even throw on the cookie monster costume, get a little wild and just have some fun collecting and giving away some stuff in the process. 2025, I think that's gonna be the year where we really kind of see this. The rows really start to bloom, if you will, just as the rows themselves actually retired this year. So that was kind of crazy. So, farewell to a Chicago legend and Derek Rose. Next event in June of 2025. And then we'd love to do that doughnut eating contest in the fall of 2025 as well. - Well, awesome, man. I really appreciate it, Avi. It's been great getting to know you over the last several months. And I also encourage everybody to go give him a follow, especially if you love sports cards, you can find them on Instagram @packs_and_and_snacks. That was our time today. I appreciate everybody for listening. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
I’m a sports card collector so a few months ago I was looking through Reddit for fellow collectors who might have some cards I was wanting to add to my portfolio. I connected with Avi Tiwari, today’s guest, and soon found out he had turned his hobby into a nonprofit called Packs ’N Snacks - donating portions of his profits to Feeding America.
We talk about the mental health benefits of working with charities and how making an effort to make every interaction with others - even strangers - a positive one can help you feel less socially isolated.
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