Radiolab - The Internet Dilemma

Matthew Herrick was sitting on his stoop in Harlem when something weird happened. Then, it happened again. And again. It happened so many times that it became an absolute nightmare—a nightmare that haunted his life daily and flipped it completely upside down. What stood between Matthew and help were 26 little words. These 26 words, known as Section 230, are the core of an Internet law that coats the tech industry in Teflon. No matter what happens, who gets hurt, or what harm is done, tech companies can’t be held responsible for the things that happen on their platforms. Section 230 affects the lives of an untold number of people like Matthew, and makes the Internet a far more ominous place for all of us. But also, in a strange twist, it’s what keeps the whole thing up and running in the first place. Why do we have this law? And more importantly, why can’t we just delete it? Special thanks to James Grimmelmann, Eric Goldman, Naomi Leeds, Jeff Kosseff, Carrie Goldberg, and Kashmir Hill. EPISODE CREDITSReported by - Rachael CusickProduced by - Rachael Cusick and Simon Adlerwith mixing help from - Arianne WackFact-checking by - Natalie MiddletonEdited by - Pat Walters EPISODE CITATIONS: Articles:Kashmir Hill’s story introduced us to Section 230. Books: Jeff Kosseff’s book The Twenty-Six Words That Created the Internet (https://zpr.io/8ara6vtQVTuK) is a fantastic biography of Section 230To read more about Carrie Goldberg’s work, head to her website (https://www.cagoldberglaw.com/) or check out her bookcheck out her book Nobody's Victim (https://zpr.io/Ra9mXtT9eNvb). Our newsletter comes out every Wednesday. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)! Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today. Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected]. Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

Duration: 39m
Broadcast on: 11 Aug 2023
Audio Format: other

What stood between Matthew and help were 26 little words. These 26 words, known as Section 230, are the core of an Internet law that coats the tech industry in Teflon. No matter what happens, who gets hurt, or what harm is done, tech companies can’t be held responsible for the things that happen on their platforms. Section 230 affects the lives of an untold number of people like Matthew, and makes the Internet a far more ominous place for all of us. But also, in a strange twist, it’s what keeps the whole thing up and running in the first place.

Why do we have this law? And more importantly, why can’t we just delete it?

Special thanks to James Grimmelmann, Eric Goldman, Naomi Leeds, Jeff Kosseff, Carrie Goldberg, and Kashmir Hill.

EPISODE CREDITSReported by - Rachael CusickProduced by - Rachael Cusick and Simon Adlerwith mixing help from - Arianne WackFact-checking by - Natalie MiddletonEdited by - Pat Walters

EPISODE CITATIONS:

Articles:Kashmir Hill’s story introduced us to Section 230.

Books: Jeff Kosseff’s book The Twenty-Six Words That Created the Internet (https://zpr.io/8ara6vtQVTuK) is a fantastic biography of Section 230To read more about Carrie Goldberg’s work, head to her website (https://www.cagoldberglaw.com/) or check out her bookcheck out her book Nobody's Victim (https://zpr.io/Ra9mXtT9eNvb).

Our newsletter comes out every Wednesday. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!

Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.

Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing [email protected].

Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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Hey folks, just a quick warning before we get started, this episode contains some swear words as well as some frank discussions about sex and suicide. Inner discretion is advised. Hey, this is Radiolab and I'm Simon Adler sitting in for Lulu and Latif this week. Yeah, how do you feel that the B team has been set in for this? Yeah, they're like, you know, the understudy of the understudy was out today, so you're going to have to take Simon Adler out to take just the usher, because a while back, our reporter producer Rachel Cusick, she sat me down in the studio to tell me a story about both how beautiful we humans are, but also just how downright awful we can be. In the tricky business of deciding who should be held responsible when that ugly part of us shows, let's hit it. So, okay, so we are going to start on a stoop in Harlem over in West Harlem in what 2016? Yeah, 2016 with this guy, Matthew Herrick. Wait, do you go by Matt or Matthew? Most people call me Matthew. Cool. At the time, Matthew had recently moved from LA to New York City. It was definitely, you know, a punch to the face, if you will. Trading palm trees and sunshine for a smelly city stoop. Yeah. Anyway. I think it was around October, mid-October. I was sitting on my stairs, which is like in the front of my building. What's this guy look like, do we know? Like tall, muscular, salt and pepper hair nowadays, I think probably just pepper back in the day. And I was having a cigarette and a gentleman walked up and stopped and stood in front of me and, you know, it's New York, so you have a lot of fucking weirdos, so I figured it was just some weirdo being weird. Like whatever. I'm just going to ignore them. Yeah. Like, it's all good. So I'm like kind of avoiding eye contact, but then I realized that they're standing there for, you know, an extended period of time, so I like looked up. And it's someone that he doesn't know, someone that he doesn't recognize. But this guy, he went, "Hey, Matt." And I was like, "Hi, like, how the hell do you know my name?" And he says, "It's so-and-so we were talking on Grindr." Grindr dating app used primarily by gay men. And so this stranger tilts his phone towards Matthew and he's like, "Look." And it's a profile on the app with a picture of me. And I was like, "That's not possible." Like, that is a photo of me. But that's not me. That is not a profile that I made. I am not on Grindr, you know? So he looks up at this guy. Like, I don't know how to explain this. I don't know who you're talking to.

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