In this installment, Peggy Daly-Masternak brings us up to date on the grassroots effort to stop the proposed widening of I-475 through West Toledo. There will be a joint meeting of the Toledo City Council and the Lucas County Commissioners on November 18 at 5:00 to discuss the issue. Meeting will be at the Government Center in downtown Toledo.
Staying in Contact with London Mitchell
Guest: Peggy Daly-Masternak, I-475 Group
Staying in contact. I'm London Mitchell. Each week we take a few minutes to examine and issue in our community and introduce individuals working to address those issues. Admittedly, sometimes we get into the weeds but hopefully you'll leave each installment with some food for thought and maybe the inspiration to roll up your own sleeves and join an effort. My guest today is Peggy Daily Masterneck, the coordinator of the group opposing the proposed widening of I-475 through West Toledo. This is a story we've been following and when we last chatted with Peggy I thought their opposition had shoved the project to the back burner but apparently not. If I left that impression I apologize because it has been, you know, it was never that we felt we had won the war maybe a skirmish but we had you know not won the war. My hope is that the as is happening the list is growing. There was just an appeal put out on a listserv that I participate in nationally for evidence that resolutions by city councils and county commissions are being passed now around the country to say the harm that you will do to our community if you just keep expanding highways cannot be offset by the costs that we will have to absorb to deal with the the trickle downs okay that come from that and the list is growing and growing so last night for example to prepare a particular piece I was able to capture about maybe 10 or 12 very recent I'm not talking anything more than like two three years ago where city councils are you know passing resolutions unanimous resolutions for the most part almost every one of them was a unanimous resolution by a city council or county commissioners to say no we oppose this and when that happens you then have the combined strength of political will combined with local activism and that does make the differences. Let's take a step back and explain to those who are listening who may not have heard our earlier discussions just what it is we're talking about this expansion or widening of I 475. In 2020 the Ohio Department of Transportation first put out the idea that they were going to widen the highway the the length of I 475 in west Toledo goes from 75 to US 23 they've already widened the portion between 75 and Douglas Road but from Douglas Road all the way out to US 23 which by the way is the densest residential area in the entire beltway around Toledo the the plan is to widen it from the existing four lanes to six lanes for the entire length but in the segment between Seacore Road and Talmadge Road they want to widen it to eight lanes they're going to refuse a word and just try to get people to be dissuaded or interested in you know what they call auxiliary lanes they are still lanes they still have traffic on them they still have pollution coming off that traffic they still have noise coming off that traffic they use them to connect one interchange to the next interchange and that's their plan for the segment between Seacore and Talmadge so in that area it will double the width of the of the existing highways that it exists right now. And your contention is that we really don't need this wide interstate or expressway through that area correct by their own data and the data from the Federal Highway Administration so from the beginning they have cited two studies that were done one was done in 2002 one was done in 2007 both of those just for context precede the invention of the iPhone so everybody now you know can't even many people have come completely to a wage as adults in those time periods and think about all the changes that have happened in those times so those two studies had them call for a purpose and need statement they are required by the federal government to produce a purpose and need statement their statements are that the highway is congested and that it is unsafe however the Federal Highway Administration publishes a massive database for freight mobility and I have dug into that massive database and find that they give years from right now it's currently they're showing from 2017 to 2022 in 2022 in there are about 11 to 12,000 in any given year bottlenecks for freight that are cited by the Federal Highway Administration around the country nationally and in 2022 this segment of highway was depending it was eastbound and westbound between 7,500 and 8,600 in the rankings out of 11,000 the average delay according to the Federal Highway Administration on that segment was about a minute to a minute point two compare that to the most congested consistently ranked number one highway in the country is the cross Bronx Parkway also known as I-95 I'm sorry cross Bronx Expressway it's not a Parkway Expressway I-95 in New York City it ranks number one year after year and the rank for it or I'm sorry the delay for it is about 47 minutes so and the other point to make here is comparing the data from 2017 to the data of 2022 we've actually improved our ranking we've gone from the 5,000s into the 7,000s and 8,000s in a list that's ranked up to 11,000 to 12,000 so we have actually lost delay time or improved on our delay time in that five-year span the other piece that is constantly cited in their purpose and need is safety and they constantly say there's been two fatalities and four serious injuries and I'm sorry for those people that went through that lost people or having capacitating injuries however when ODOT's own consultants studied three different alternatives for widening the highway they saw that the only thing that would be decreased would be fender benders in their in their analytics you know they have massive data analytically looking at what is going to be the consequence of this widening type this widening type or this widening type and in all cases all three cases of widening both incapacitating injuries and fatalities went up up to 29 percent when you widen the highway so to claim that it's going to get safer frankly it challenges common sense because you bring more cars you bring wider lanes you then wind up with people weaving in and out trying to go faster and faster the other piece about the safety is the the context of those crashes that occurred that took somebody's life or caused an incapacitating injury they do not mention that in both fatalities neither person was wearing a seat belt they don't mention that for some of the serious injuries alcohol was involved or a motorcycle or that these these types of crashes often involve young drivers or the high rates of speed or any of those things that will not be mitigated by a highway widening none of that can be addressed by adding yet another lane so you know you need to the devil is truly in the details on this one when you when you start throwing down and and counter their arguments with things you know it defies common sense it defies their own data i'm london mitchell and we are staying in contact my guest is peggy daily masternak who is leading the grassroots opposition to the widening of i-475 through west elito peggy there is no doubt that you have gained odot's attention but how do you bridge the gap between you two and are there any positive signs you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna give them props right now for a very small amount of effort it really won't do what needs to be done but at least they have tried 2020 to 2024 in looking at a a trend that is called complete streets so they have taken several of the bridges this is based on their or their material that was handed out earlier this week at their open house not a public meeting where people could all be heard at the same time a stroll through and look at pictures on the wall and talk one-on-one with with you know some consultant or some odot staffer and um when you look at it you see that on russian and bowin and talmidge and um and roe street perhaps i'm trying to remember they are trying to apply what is known as complete streets complete streets means the street shouldn't just be for vehicle traffic a complete street should be for a walker a biker um you know somebody who wants to get from here to there who can afford a car and frankly many people young people especially can no longer afford a vehicle what they would pay for a car today i paid for my first house um the insurance the gasoline the upkeep all of that makes it almost impossible so they want to have bike ability they want to have walkability they want to have public transit improve public transit and so the complete streets theory is we're going to make these streets more this way they have added some wider walking paths on those three bridges that i've just named um they maybe put a little bit greenery there okay to to make it a little bit more of a pleasant walk peggy you've been studying how odot makes decisions and how it prioritizes its budget odot has a budget 24 and 25 biennium their budget is 11 and a half billion dollars of that 11 and a half billion dollars odot earmarks 1.1 percent for public transit and 0.3 percent for rail so my contention with odot is they seem to be single-minded in the idea that we just are about building highways expanding highways laying down new highways we are not about looking at a bigger broader picture in today's context of what people really really truly need and i don't think we need any more opportunity to be a car-centric community we can't afford it we can't afford the health costs we can't afford the the climate costs we can't afford the the money that's being laid down for this that's another piece london is that in one year's period of time the increase in the cost for this highway is now up 22 percent they're up the last time it was quoted was um that i have written documentation for a quote um showing the cost summary estimate it was 176 million it's now up to 217 and a half million and that doesn't include property acquisition and it doesn't include the design costs that have already been expended so the cost of it to taxpayers in a tough economy right now that's what the whole election or part of the reasons for the last election you know we're in a tough economy this is unnecessary their own data disproves it we don't need the climate impacts we don't need the the health impacts we don't need any of that um we have to really really really truly rethink what we do with the limited amount of resource that we have to make it better for everybody not just for people who want to jump in a car and frankly you know cut their commute time that's what this is about that and it's a trucking trucking route for people who will stay in Toledo for about two minutes on their truck route from Canada all the way to parts west of here that's what this is about and and you know I realize the need for commerce commerce is very important yes I purchase things much less than I used to but I you know yes I still need groceries I still need clothing but at what cost at what point do we start to say wait a minute it's pretty unbalanced we're talking with Peggy Bailey masternak coordinator of the neighborhood grassroots effort opposing the widening of I-475 through west Toledo her email address is i.475 group at gmail.com that's i.475 group at gmail.com I'm London Mitchell hoping you'll accept this invitation to join us again next week as we continue staying in contact previous episodes of staying in contact with London Mitchell are available on Apple podcasts Amazon podcasts Podbean the suite 419 app and London Mitchell.News