When you hear the word networking, do you have an almost ick response? We get it, and yet building a supportive network of friends and colleagues is crucial for your success as a cookbook author, and really for anything you do. (upbeat music) Welcome to Everything Cookbooks, the podcast for writers, readers, and cooks. This is Kristin Dottily, and I'm here today with Kate Lahey, and Molly Stevens. (upbeat music) - Hello. - Hello. - Hello. - So what is your immediate response when you're invited to something called a networking event? - Am I supposed to wear a suit? (laughs) - Cold sweat, yeah. (laughs) Dry it out, I know, totally. I'm like, I'm not going. - I sign up. - Yeah. - Yeah, I guess it depends, right? - Yeah, it depends, but as it gets closer. - I start to run a nerves around it. - Right, you're like, there's something else I could do on this Tuesday night, like, I don't know, watch Netflix, and you know, I forced out to this event where hopefully I see a friendly face, anything. - Well, it was also like, what does it even mean? I mean, for me, being in the world, I'm in the kind of like general networking event is generally not super helpful. Like, I know where I am locally, there'll be these like local networking events, but they seem best for people who have like small businesses where they're serving local clients, you know? - Right. - But in our world, if there are networking events, usually we're looking for things geared toward full writers, writers of other sorts, journalists, cookbook authors, obviously. But even those, where we might know, like half the people, there's still like a little bit of like a feeling, right? - Imposter syndrome. - Yeah, I mean, honestly, some way, it was like only, but biggest like wardrobe crises have been, you know, getting ready to go to an event that, you know, I think of as a networking event and I'm gonna go into a conference or I'm going to something where people I haven't seen in maybe a year or six months or, and I'm trying to present myself, I don't know, it's so weird, it's like, what's the big deal? It's like, I'm a writer, it doesn't really matter if my genes are from gap or... (laughing) - It's true. But I don't think I'm the only one. - Yeah, no. And yet, I do think about how, for me, for so much of my career, my network, meaning, people I know, people I have relationships with has been key and I imagine it's been the same for you. - This podcast wouldn't exist without networking. I mean, I met Andrea in 2009 at an IACP conference. It was my very first conference that I went to. I met her, we were introduced by our publisher and that's how I met you both, was through Andrea. - Yeah, it's funny she's not here today because she started this group that then turned into this podcast, so... - That's true. Thanks Andrea. - Yeah. - She's off networking. (laughing) - But I remember Molly, I think I met you in person at another IACP event and I was nervous, even though I had known you through, I had never seen you in person. So it was like, oh, I'm gonna meet Molly Stevens. - That's so funny. - Yeah. - I know, when I joined a group with Molly Stevens who wrote my most favorite cookbook ever, I couldn't believe it. If my 24-year-old self could see me now. - Funny, and meanwhile, I'm sitting here like worried about whatever, but okay, I remember that meeting because I was standing at a book table for a friend, the book's Xingerman's books, right? It was a book fair and you walked up. I still remember that, that's right. It's so funny, but so IACP has been a big part of networking, certainly for me, meaning Andrea, obviously in this group, but also back from the very beginning of my career, showing up at those conferences. It was really important. And that, it's so different networking now because there's so many opportunities to network virtually. - First I wanna say, are there ways that networking has gotten easier for you or even like mindsets you try to get into? - So right now I'm in the process of trying to meet more people who write novels. So maybe this helps to kind of frame it this way for listeners who might be new to cookbook writing or want to get their foot in the door with cookbook writing 'cause I feel like that's where I am right now with fiction. And no one knows who I am. It's like the opposite of going to IACP this days. It's like going to IACP in 2009. There are certain things that make it hard, but there's also certain things that make it easier. One thing that I think has made it a little bit less daunting is when I can connect with people online first and then when I'm at an event and I see them in real life, at least I feel like, oh, I kind of know this person, even if I've only had a Zoom with them or exchange some like DMs. There's like a little bit of knowledge with the background, but it's still not easy. I went to Thriller Fest for the first time this past June, but I knew a couple of people there just from a workshop that I did with the podcast, the shit no one tells you about writing. And we had been in like a breakout room from their conference, their online conference. And so then we're like, oh, you're going to Thriller Fest, but let's meet in person. And I was like, are they going to recognize me? And they were like, hey, Kate. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's awesome. Okay, I know like two people here. So that was like, I think kind of friendly. And maybe that's something that I think in food writing and cookbook writing, I think I'm also seeing that. Like our conversation we had with baby, she built so much of her network online. Then this fall went on her book tour and is meeting those people in person. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, for me, I think reframing networking helped a lot 'cause to me networking sometimes implies like needing something from other people maybe or them needing something from you. Like there feels like an inauthenticity to it or the possibility of there being that. And so once I sort of just focus on like genuine relationship building and relationships where I don't need anything from anybody. I just wanna like be a friendly, helpful person. That's helped a lot. There is sometimes at networking events that like needy energy. And usually I just try to like steer clear of that if I can. I mean, there's so many tropes around networking like the schmooze and you say the inauthentic, the like, oh yeah, you know, trading numbers never following through this. And you know, it's like being at a bad cocktail party or you know, that sort of thing. But the slow game, right? Well, I love the conversation that you had with Carolyn Cho. She talked about networking in sort of being in New York City. And so I think if you're in New York City or you're in the Bay Area or you're in Chicago, you're in a place where there's a lot happening in your field. It's easier to make those connections. But if you're out on your own and a lot of cookbook writing is out on your own, you know, how do you make those connections? And it has changed so much with online possibilities, you know, email and DMs and everything else we can do now. But I think back to a conversation with Martha Holmberg and I've known Martha for, I forget how many years we established it, but we met way, way, way back before. And she taught me the value of kind of keeping tabs on people and even though it's changed in terms of how you can do it. But if there's someone you, maybe it's an author who you like their work or it's someone that you were an assistant to their class at some point, just someone who struck you as something, like something I like about what that person is up to, to just sort of keep tabs on them and maybe drop them a line every now and then, you know, send an email, send a DM just and you never know like where that will lead or if it will lead anywhere, but you're not asking for anything. You're just watching their progression and, you know, you never know, really checking in. It's reminding me of when JJ Goode was talking about how he often hires when he's hiring recipe testers, it's like the person he heard from most recently. That's so true, yeah. So I think that is a really good practice and it's nice, it's like one of the good things about technology is how much easier doing those things are. A tax, a DM, like those things, they can't be meaningful and especially with like younger people, like, I don't know, like picking up the phone was so like, that was so normal for so long. And now it's like picking up the phone to call somebody. It's, it feels intrusive sometimes, right? - Who would ever leave a voicemail, I know, right? - If there isn't an opportunity to meet people in person, I think that's even more valuable than ever. - I agree. - And I don't think it has to be, you know, you have to fly to New York City to go to a conference necessarily. I think it can be looking for opportunities in your area 'cause I think when you have your local friends who do what you do, it's just then, you know, you can build on that network and maybe that one local friend gets a big book deal and then, you know, when you get your deal, they can write that blurb for you and those kinds of things but you have a real friendship behind it. So it's not that sort of like gross, just thinking of like bad networking events. Have you ever been in a conversation with somebody and then they like, they look at your tab and then they're just like, you know, I have to move on and talk to somebody else. Like has anyone ever had that experience? 'Cause I'm raising my hand right now. - Yeah, or they look past you all the time. And I know it's hard sometimes not to do that 'cause I think for me that that's what overwhelming. It's like, there's so much going on around me and so then to try to like take it all in. And for me, a really successful networking event is when I can get into a great conversation with somebody of whether or not leads to anything but just if you can have like a good, like solid conversation with somebody, but what makes for not a good conversation is when somebody's constantly looking past you to see when somebody more interesting is coming into the room, you know? - Yeah. - Been there. - But I've also, I think as I've gotten older, I've just learned to like let go of some of that stuff. - Oh sure. - Not let it bother me. Yeah, yeah, where's when I was younger, I was a little like, hell rude, I know. - Right. And also the perspective, I mean, just, you know, still laughing at what he both said at the top about, you know, meeting me. But I remember being at conferences when I was just starting out and seeing, you know, who I thought were the cool kids or the successes and just being way too intimidated to say anything or to approach or, and you know, that's tricky approaching someone who you don't know that you want to meet is not necessarily the right, I don't know what am I trying. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You know, it's, you can't like back to it being the slow game. I mean, you could just say, I really admire your work and I just wanted to say hello and then I don't know, maybe you said to note later or something. - Also, I think networking with finding people who are in a similar place. - Oh, sure. - Career wise, peers, peers that you can grow with. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Is really valuable. - I agree with that. - Because you can share process more than just like, sure, it'd be great to go meet all the superstars, but you know, can they really relate to trying to get your first book, right? Or, I mean, of course they can relate to it, but. - But that's not necessarily what they are there for. - Yeah, right. And things change so much that a debut author's experience in 2024, 2025 is different than it was 10 years ago. Or 20 years ago. So I think that also, as things shift, you kind of need your cohort. So you can have mentors who are beyond where you are right now, just in terms of goal posts that they've passed in their career, but it also really feels good to then have the people who are at the same goal post so you can compare notes. So you can kind of trade sort of advice that is applicable to the stage. But I think there's also, you know, people who are thought of as mentors can learn a lot from people that they're menteeing too. - Oh my gosh. - I actually learned so much from people. Like when I've taught them or consulted with them, I feel like I learned tremendous, tremendous amounts. And I was actually just hearing somebody talking about how like she sees almost everybody she interacts with as a mentor in some way or another in that she learned something from them. - I love that. - Yeah. - Can you give an example? Just curious of like something that you've learned from your class, teaching your classes? - Well, certainly like anybody who's more into content creation like makes that part of their like daily life and practice. I've learned a lot about that. And then I think just like just seeing different peoples' anxieties about writing that maybe I don't share, but then it makes me understand other people's potential anxieties a little bit better. Like I don't know, like if I help somebody through it. And then also just some of the challenges with like the systemic issues within publishing and hearing stories from them and maybe some of the rejections or some of the misunderstandings that they've had along the way with people, if they share those stories with me, I learn maybe how to make this industry try to be a bit better, hopefully. So that's a few examples. - I remember when we spoke to Carolyn Chambers about, she was in New York on either book tour or something and she met up with a number of her, I don't know if she called her colleagues, friends, but people who are sort of doing similar work, books, newsletters, and she learned from them that they work with a buddy, that was her term, a buddy, but not a ghost writer, but someone who helps that move their book project along. They don't just do it solo. And it was a great example of networking, where she reached out because she was in a city that a number of her colleagues were in or visiting and she got together and they sort of shared tips on where they are in their development and work and workflow, I think, is something that I'm always learning for people about. - Yes, totally true. - Like managing things. And I mean, it's one of the things I love about this podcast is talking with so many authors and editors and other people and learning about their process because everybody's different, but there's so much to learn. - Do you think that if you don't like the word networking, one way to think about it, like as Kristen said, just like reframe it in your mind, but instead of thinking of it as networking, just think of it as a learning opportunity to learn how other people do the job that you do. And then if you think of it that way, then it's not about who you specifically seek out to talk to who's the big name in the room. It's basically who you are just having good conversations with and you might come back with just some new things for your toolkit. - Yeah, yep. - I think another thing, I don't know if it's a reframing, but it's just something I try to approach networking, but other things with is a spirit of reciprocity. So I don't go into something where it's like, what can they do for me, you know what I mean? And I try to be as helpful as possible. And obviously, it's like, if I'm super helpful then maybe someday if I, I think Caroline show you the words, like I called in all my favorites so she was planning her book tour. But yeah, I do think just like being a helpful person in the world often like then makes it more likely that people will be helpful when you need that. - Yeah, it's an abundance mentality. - Totally, it's just like living, it is an abundance mentality. You're absolutely right. - And I find more and more, you know, and I obviously, it's part of where I am and my career and my life and stuff. But as much as I can share, I will share. I mean, it's not gonna, it doesn't take away from me to share with someone, I mean, time, energy, that sort of thing. But you never, I remember years ago, and I don't know if I'm making this up or if it was attributed to Julia Child, but I experienced this in a few times that I was fortunate enough to be around her, she would sit down at a table or dinner or meal, whatever. And look for the least, let's say least interesting, the least well-known maybe person at the table. And you can imagine she was often surrounded with people with some pretty big names. And she would look for the person and say, "And tell me, what do you do?" You know, and that idea that you never know who's got something going on. And obviously, Julia didn't need to create a network at that point in her career and her life. - Well, she did help found, she was one of the founders of IACP, right? - I believe. - So maybe she did back then find this idea, you know, that she wanted to create a more formal network with her cohort. I know she was one of the founders of the AIWF, which I believe is no longer around the American Institute of Wine and Food. And she was involved with the mandavis and starting that. IACP was a cooking teachers organization at its start. That would be an interesting history to find out. - Well, let me ask you this, just between virtual and in person. I feel like virtual is just so much more accessible for people, usually a lower lift. Usually if there's a fee attached to it, it's a lot less expensive. Do any of you have experiences of like how to make a virtual event work for you? - Virtual events are, I find, to be pretty tricky. I know like Cherry Bomb, for example, has a membership. It's inexpensive, I think it's 40 bucks a year. And once a month, they do an event. I don't go very frequently, but the events are usually, it's like a workshop or there's a speaker, but I'm sure if there, you can, you know, you can always scan who's in the Zoom and you can often like, like private message somebody within a Zoom and if it's somebody you wanted to talk to and just like start a conversation that way, I wouldn't like go on and on with it, but you just say like, hey, you know, cool to see you here. Would you be up to chat sometime? But that brings me to another way where I found it to be like virtual networking, to be beneficial, 'cause I live an hour and a half outside New York City now. So I don't get in very often. A few years ago, I was feeling like out of it, you know, out of the scene. And so I popped into a Facebook group where I am one of the food writer oriented Facebook groups and just said like, hey, I really miss having random coffees with people the way I used to in New York City. Would anybody be up for coffee like over Zoom and just put a link to my calendar so people could sign up for slots for, and I did it for like an entire month and so I had like 20 different meetings every day for like every weekday for a month and it was awesome. And I feel like it was a really nice way to like build some good relationships and see what people were up to. And in this industry, it was beyond writer. So it was people who were also doing like various kinds of entrepreneurship and food. So I just learned a lot and recommend if you are like, especially like not in a good strong scene to try that out. And that's one on one. And so that's valuable, I think, whereas like virtual events can be tricky. - I think Facebook groups are an interesting, I'm glad you mentioned them, Kristen, because there's a lot of, a lot of them. And from very narrow niche topics, groups to a little more broad. And I love that you did that. Is there a certain vulnerability in doing that? To say, hey, I'm just looking to connect. I mean, are we afraid to, I'm just thinking of myself. If I did that, would I be afraid to admit that I'm like not fully engaged or I'm, you know, I don't know. I just framed it as like, I used to do this all the time when I lived in the city. - Yeah, I like it. - And realized it's kind of been missing. And I also like had a very young child. I feel like that just took up so much time. And now my daughter is more school-age. So I just had a little more bandwidth. It didn't make me feel strange. - Right. - Or like, it didn't make me feel needy. How about that? - I'm lonely, I need friends, right? - It didn't make me feel needy or desperate. 'Cause that's like the worst, right? - So, and I think because people could sign up, like, but they could just sign up too. - You weren't knocking on their doors and saying. - Nope, I was like, here's my calendar. Sign up for a slot, I'd love to meet you. Actually, I think I have a blog post about it. So we'll share that in the show notes. - I was just thinking about like, what if you've done food writing but you've taken a break from it? Maybe you were doing tech writing and you're doing something else and you're trying to get back in? Maybe that's another thing. 'Cause I do feel, for instance, there's this great new bakery that opened close to me and I went to their preview but I don't get invites anymore from PR people because I'm not writing about local food restaurants anymore. So I was invited by a friend who's doing that a lot. I realized like, I recognize some faces but I had fallen out of that network so far that no one knew what I did or who I was or anything. And it's like, oh, so what do you write for? And I was like, I didn't really have a good like canned answer. (laughs) But it really also made me feel like, it did make me feel vulnerable. Like kind of like, I'm sort of fish out of water but it also made me realize if I really didn't want to get back into it, like doing more of these things, seeing these people 'cause the more repetition, oftentimes you come across the same people. And I think that might even occur online that the same types of people might sign up for the workshop. So you get like repetition with faces and names. I feel like that's also part of networking. - Totally. Yeah, classes too. I mean, I've heard that from like Tori Ritchie when she teaches her class, like a lot of the students bond and then I've taught my class and I know some of the students stay in touch. I don't know, I've heard that from a lot of people like when they take classes. Kate, I mean, I don't know when you've taken your fiction classes if you've made some good buddies from that. - Yeah, oh, I've got this great writing group. Yeah, we meet like every two weeks, I just send out a Zoom link and there's five of us. That's awesome. - That's actually, let's talk about size because I feel like with online networking, if you go to say a lecture and there's a hundred people at the lecture and maybe you can like raise your hand, ask your question, but I feel like that's really daunting and scary to just talk in front of a hundred people on Zoom as if you're a participant and you're there to listen to the expert. But my writing workshop was there was the workshop leader and then five writers. And so we got to read everybody's work. Every week we would be talking through pages and problem solving for each other. So you get to know people pretty well by reading their work. So by the end of the 12 weeks, you want to keep in touch 'cause you want to see what happens. You want to see if they finish the story. And also you just kind of want to know more about their lives because you focus so much on the writing. You're like, what's going on in Boston these days or DC? So that also is a fun part of it. And I would imagine Kristin when we went to Cookbook Fest, there were people who had taken your class. - Yeah, that was fun. - Yeah, and they're like, oh my gosh, they were all like thickest thieves together. So that was cool. - Yeah, that was cool. - Listen to this conversation. So the value of networking, it's a lot of what we're talking about is support system. So you have people in your network who have some experience that relates to yours and can help you through some, you know, whether it's a rough patch or an uninspired patch or just cheer you on or maybe blurb a book or whatever. But there's also, my experience of networking has also been a lot of opportunities. - Yes, for sure. - The strong network that I built early on, especially in my career. As a freelancer, that's where I got most of my work. - Yeah, thank you. - It's from people that I met and people, and just back to that JG, good that, you know, you're top of mind or you run into them and they're looking for someone who can do just what you do and they hire you to do it. And then somebody else sees you doing that. And you know, it can really snowball in the best of ways. So the value, I mean, you never know what can come from the people in your network. But the idea is you're not building the network, you know, hoping to get something out of it, right? - Right, right. I mean, maybe like, it's there in the back of your mind, but I feel like bringing that. Yeah, I just keep thinking of it as like a needy energy, like bringing needy energy. People sense it and it's eternal. So it's more just like bringing like a generous energy if you can't. - Yeah, if you can't. - And it's fine if somebody emails me and says, "Hey, I'm a photographer if you're looking for somebody "to shoot a cookbook you're working on, keep me in mind." That's fine. - Yeah, for sure. Most of the time I won't have any work to send their way. But you never know, I'll save the email, essentially. If somebody says, "Hey, do you need help recipe testing?" Like probably at that moment I won't, but you never know and I can save that email. And especially if it's somebody I have met in person at some point, I'll have that name recognition and the email at recognition. And that's also ways to sort of just build your network or somebody might ask me, "Hey, have you ever heard of so-and-so I'm thinking "of hiring them for this job?" And it's like, oh, they seem really nice when I met them that one time and we emailed. - Yeah, do you have any tricks or tips for after you've met people? Like, I'm so bad, I'm so bad. - I'm really not good with faces and names and I try. And so I'll often write down. Like if I do, you know, if it's a real life event or I'll take notes, I take notes all the time but all sorts of things. But I'll just simply write it down and I might write a few things about what they, you know, just to try to help myself to remember. - Yeah, it's hard. Like if you need to, I met these people. This was, I think, at a holiday party and I was introduced to a Michelle and introduced to an Emma. And in my head, I imprinted Michelle's face on Emma and so I could not think of her as Emma. She was Michelle to me and I think I'd saw, or like, you know, six months later, I'm like, "Hi, Michelle." And I got this funny look and it's like, "Oh, so we all do that." (laughs) Yeah, so I need to get better at those mnemonic. It's like, "Michelle with the maroon sweater." - I worked with someone. Way, way, way back when I worked on the joy of cooking that Maria Guarnichelli did. And Maria's assistant, Mara Stetz, she's still out and working. And we became, you know, pretty close 'cause we talked on the phone all the time just before Zoom, before any video chats. But I never met her, but we talked like every day for weeks, for months. And when I finally met her, I was like, "You're not Mara." Like, 'cause she didn't look, her voice had, I created an image. - That's okay. And obviously this wouldn't happen today because we can look at anybody's picture, but it was so funny. And still, if I see her, I'm like, I have to do a double take 'cause I created this face of a person who I'd never met. - That's funny. - Yeah. When you said assistant, it made me think of something which is a thing with quote, networking, which is like, to never treat people who are in a more junior position, like they are less than. I'm saying that from personal experience when I went to an event, I think I was in either an intern or an editorial assistant. And I was sent to the event because the editors saw promise in me, right? And but the PR person was making a huge stink about it in a way that was like where I knew about it. And it's like, I rose up through the ranks and I still like feel awful. Like it was just a really bad way to be treated as like less than or you're not worthy of being here. People, you know, when they're junior in their career, like they only have one place to go, which is up if they stay in it. So like, just know that this assistant to your editor might be your editor, like not too far in the future. - Yeah, that's a good point. - Any other like wise words we wanna share about networking or? - There's often expense associated with networking. Like if you're going to join or you're going to travel, that's tricky and I remember, you know, really having, and I still have, you know, there's a conference last month that I really wanted to go to and timing wasn't great. It was gonna cost me too much to fly there. And I just, you know, I mean, it's not an easy math to do because you don't really know the cost benefit, cost analysis, how to figure it out. So I guess all I'm trying to say is there's cost associated with it and you need to just make that decision somehow. Obviously, yes, you can, you know, write it off as a tax, you know, as a business expense, you could write it off as a business expense, but you still have to outlay the money. So just something to think about. - Right. And I remember that was one of my hesitations with IECP because those conferences were expensive. - Yeah. - Now they have a one day summit. It's I think a lower lift if you, especially if you live in the tri-state area, but it's still not nothing. Even though I have found value going to IECP, especially when I was in my late twenties, it was just like, how am I going to, how am I going to afford this? And I think no one should ever put like max out their credit card going to conferences. So like that's the trickiest part of it. It sort of does feel, it's a lot. One thing I would recommend is looking to see if there's a local organization that you can join. I know in the Bay Area, I think BB talks about this on the podcast we did with her, but there's a group called Proof Collective and it's pretty much a free group of people who are food enthusiasts. And there's a Slack and you can communicate on Slack and people do post like job opportunities or events and the events are ticketed, but oftentimes these events are potlucks. So organizations like that around people who are interested in food are maybe just as valuable, more valuable than going to a national conference, international conference. Another thing is like with my whole fiction journey, which is I think why this episode couldn't come at a better time 'cause now I'm having to like, oh, how do I like network again? Like, oh, that's so scary. But in July, I went to this bookstore. That's another thing, look at your bookstores and see who's speaking at your bookstores and see if there's ways that you can introduce yourself to cookbook authors who are on tour in your area. Totally. But like there's this bookstore called Book Passage, which is a large independent bookstore in the Bay Area and they do this mystery conference in the middle of the summer. I went thinking, oh, it's a local event. I can just drive there. But there were people who flew all over the country who were there at this conference. It was a pretty good turnout. And then being there in person, this one woman named Cara Black who writes a whole detective series that takes place in Paris. I met her, she had gone to a David Leibowitz signing at Omnivore years ago so we could connect over food in Paris and she was sort of like the person putting on the event. So now I feel like, okay, I have my foot in the door in this mystery community in a way that I didn't beforehand. So any opportunities like that, bookstore events, local groups, Kristen, I love your Facebook group idea. See if there's Instagram groups that do the same. These types of events. So then like when you are able to go to a conference and pay the money to go to a conference, you can even get more out of it, I think. Totally, yeah. If you have those people you've seen in a Facebook group and then you see them in person, it's like already, there's already a little bit of a relationship. Speaking of a Facebook group, Sally Eckes, Agent Sally Eckes has a Facebook group called How to Be a Cookbook Author and that is a valuable group to join a lot of people who ask questions in there and share their wisdom. We can put that one in the show notes. It's funny you were talking about IACP and the money because like maxing out a credit card, no. If it's a financial stretch but you think it could be worth it, sometimes it really is. They think about Summer Miller who is a cookbook author and she lives in Nebraska. And there's just not a lot of opportunity there to connect with other food folks. But because of the folks that she met at IACP, she ended up getting a job at Simply Recipes and now she works for the Mediterranean dish and it's just been really great for her career and it doesn't necessarily have to be IACP but she does talk about how that financial investment was super worth it. - That's a good point and just don't try to expense your outfits, right? You can expense your travel. (laughing) - And don't worry about your outfit. - I don't worry about your outfit. No one's going to remember. - No, that's really funny. Don't expense your outfits. - That's true. - Was that, I think that was an IACP. Wasn't there an accounting one where you can't count and it was like, you can't expense your clothes. (laughing) - Cool, well, Thanksgiving coming our way. - Yeah, it's a nice time to talk about networking 'cause we're all, right before the holiday, known for gathering. - Yes. - Talking about being out of side of your comfort zone sometimes. (laughing) - So, what you doing this year? - We're going big. - Oh. - We're going big, a lot of family. - What does big mean? - I don't know what the final count is in the, it's over 30. - That's nice. - How many turkeys? - Well, it's gotta be two. - Yeah. - Is it going to be partially potluck or are you cooking everything? - Partially potluck. - People have assignments, yes, people will be, certain cousin is very good at this, somebody else makes a niece, makes amazing mashed potatoes. You know, there's lots of people have their thing. - Yes, yes, and they have to do at least one turkey in the house so that the house smells like turkey when people show up and of course there are vegetarians in the group and various dietary situations, so there'll be lots of options for all of that. - And so where's the other turkey on the grill? - No, somebody will bring another second. - Oh, got it, nice. - I was thinking, if you were into deep frying turkeys and I was wondering, you never did the all about frying cookbook. - Yeah, no, my family has to had some deep fried turkeys out around Christmas time out in the backyard in the snow. - Wow, that's fun. How about you too? - I'm going to my sister-in-laws and it'll be a small affair, but we have for the past several years all celebrated Thanksgiving together where it's just like my small family and their small family, my husband's mother. She's a really good cook. We have fun cooking together, so I actually need to connect with her to see what we're doing. Sometimes she is a pescatarian so she doesn't eat turkey and then there's not a huge love of turkey necessarily so last year we actually didn't even do one. I can't remember what we did instead 'cause with her being a pescatarian and they're in Maryland, sometimes we do like crabs. But we'll see. - Yeah, that sounds good. There's one main turkey and then my mom gets four turkey legs separately. There's a recipe from the Preservation Kitchen where we brined the turkey breast separate and then the legs are braised and so it's kind of a spin off that. So the nice thing is the legs get braised. The legs get salted, leftover night, cutie, roger style and then braised and then when the day before Thanksgiving when they're all gelatinous and all that, then pull apart, take all the bones and skin away. So just makes the serving of the dark meat 'cause there's a dark meat-- - Contingency. - Contingency in this group. So we'll do that. My mom sets a table like Tuesday because it takes too much time to do it last minute and you wanna have all the stuff. - How many people? - Somewhere around 20, 25. - Yeah, oh well, it's a nice size. - You all sit down. - We all sit down, which is the complicated part. So figuring out like who's on the main table and then do we still have a kids table even though? (laughing) And then there's like real kids? - Right. - We have like these tiers of tables. We do make a recipe that Molly, you made for Gourmet Magazine sometime, maybe in the early 2000s. - Oh, right. - The onion. - And it's this, yeah, chipolini onions with pomegranates and palsamic. - That's amazing. - My mom loves it so much that who's peeling those damn chipolinis is me. - That's right. (laughing) - But yeah, it's, those onions with the pomegranates are so beautiful on a fall Thanksgiving table. There's love for those onions. They're not going anywhere, so no. - I do love that it's just about the meal and I feel so fortunate to be a family on both sides that are filled with good cooks. And so it's just special. You know, whether it's turkey or crab meat or pumpkin pie or no pie or whatever, I just, it's just a nice holiday because it's really just about the food. - Yeah, well, happy Thanksgiving everybody. Happy Thanksgiving. - Yeah, and happy Thanksgiving to all our listeners. We are very grateful for you. - Yeah, may everyone eat what they want and you know, it's okay if you eat a little too much tomorrow. - Totally. - And don't worry about cleaning up right away. Enjoy it all. - I like that piece of advice. Thanks for hosting Kristin. - Sure. - Yeah. - Thank you for listening to Everything Cookbooks. For more episodes and ways to contact us, go to our website, everythingcookbooks.com. The show is available wherever you get your audio and if you'd like what you hear, please leave us a review, it really helps. Any books mentioned in the show can be found on our affiliate page at bookshop.org. Thanks, as always, to our editor, Abby Circatella. Until next time, keep on writing, reading, and cooking. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
Kristin, Molly and Kate chat all about that often dreaded activity, networking. They talk about the stressors involved, their individual approaches and what they focus on to build relationships and why re-framing these as learning opportunities can help with imposter syndrome. They discuss some specific resources and advice along with some personal experiences that they've learned from to build a community of mutual support before ending with their Thanksgiving plans and traditions.
