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That's Smiley Coffin for 61. Wow! I'm Smiley Coffin, and this is The Smiley Show. Welcome back to another episode of The Smiley Show, the first post-PGA Championship episode. We did recaps all week from Valhalla and Louisville, so if you want to catch up on all of our analysis throughout the week, including an emergency pod reacting to Scotty Scheffler's, just shocker arrest on Friday morning and everything that followed, you can go find that on our YouTube and our pod feed there. But we are officially on to the Charles Schwab Challenge, Colonial Week. We're going to Colonial Country Club in Fort Worth, Texas, and unlike some other previous episodes we do, we're going to do very little in the way of discussing it here, because we have something better for you. We have a conversation that Smiley had with GuillHants, who along with Jim Wagner did a full restoration of this course to return it to its roots of the 1940-1941 era when it hosted the US Open, and we are fired up about that. So, Smiley, just set the table for that conversation off the top. Emilia and Agriela won this event last year, and then the day after, his last putt hit the hole, and they left the course. Gil brought the bulldozers in, and they got to work. So, just reflections on what you know colonial to be in the past, and times you played it, and what you're looking forward to seeing when this thing gets unveiled, and we see this on TV for the first time on Thursday. I mean, there's just so much history here, going back from Ben Hogan and just how iconic this place really is, and there's just so much history of what's happened at this golf course, and you feel that in the interview, and Gil talking about how important this project was to him, and how he's trying to get it back to the roots of how it was and that US Open that you just kind of referred to. So, just kind of getting, you know, underneath the hood of kind of what Gil was thinking and how he's going to bring it to life. In an era in which people are trying to make golf courses longer, you know, he was making it a little bit more on the rustic side, I guess is kind of a good way of how he described it, but really a great conversation of how he kind of worked hand-in-hand with the club and other PGA Tour players that, you know, make this a golf course playable for its members, but also to host a PGA Tour event every year. Yeah, I was during this conversation just sort of nerding out with my camera off, just listening to the whole thing. And as a brief tease, I love the question that you asked him about whether he likes restoring golf courses or designing his own, because he's almost too good at restoring golf courses at this point. You know, it's like everyone wants to call Gil hands to come in and do their, and restore their course along with Jim Wagner. And, you know, I'll let you listen to the episode to hear Gil's answer in full on that because it was a really good one. So really fired up for that conversation. That is where we are headed next. And then we have yet another interview on the other side of Gil. So without further ado, let's kick it over to Gil Hands' conversation with Smiley about the Colonial Country Club Restoration. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of The Smiley Show. And we have Gil Hands joining us from The Land Down Under. So good morning to you, Gil, and good day, mate. Thanks, Smiley. Appreciate it. Yeah. A little bit reversed. Everything's upside down. Yeah, exactly. It's hard for us to have people fit our schedules with babies and after evening hours. But this is perfect. You just woke up. Probably had a cup of coffee about ready to start your day. I've had two hours on the bulldozer already. So I've just been shaking all morning. We get started early here. So it's been a good morning. So far, the weather's been perfect. And just popped up to my room here at Royal Sydney to get on chat with you. Amazing, amazing. And this conversation is going to be mainly about Colonial, which is a-- It's been a project that you've been working on this whole last year, ever since that last pet putt dropped at Colonial. Just kind of walk us through what the issues that kind of faced Colonial Country Club from a play standpoint and just also how long it took for you to kind of get this project going. Yeah, it was a big project. Obviously it was comprehensive in everything that we did. You know, infrastructurally, which isn't the sexy stuff, right? The architecture stuff is what we want to talk about. But everything under the ground needed to be replaced. It was time to redo greens. It was time to redo infrastructure, drainage, irrigation. And, you know, what could we do to create better growing conditions for what is traditionally been a very difficult time of year for them. You've got the Bermuda grass is sort of just coming to life and the bend is starting to struggle a little bit with the heat in this May time slot. So what could we do under the ground that would actually help us present better greens? Because the club decided to go with Ben Grass greens. It was since Marvin Leonard founded the club in 1936. That was one of the mantras were going to be the first course in the southwest to have Ben Grass greens. And they've stuck to it. So what could we do under the greens? We've got the ability to heat and cool. On the soil, Rich McIntosh has done an amazing job. And so he's got all the bells and whistles from an infrastructure standpoint to present the golf course better. And so once the club decided they needed to invest in getting, having the opportunity to have all these tools. They decided, should we look at the architecture? Should we focus on what could be done on the golf course to maybe make it a little bit more compelling test? And that's when we were brought in to talk to them about that. And our focus shifted towards that 1941 US Open Program. Once we saw that and we saw what did colonial look like and how was it presented and all the amazing things that were built. It's honestly, it's a pretty flat piece of ground. And the main part of it that really provided all the assets was the access to the Trinity River and the various tributaries that fit into the Trinity. And based on the 1960s engineering project, a lot of those features have been stripped away from the golf course in order to protect the golf course and protect the neighborhood from flooding. So what we try to do is look at this program and say, yeah, that's the direction we want to go, both from a strategic standpoint, but also how we want to present the golf course. The golf course had gotten very formalized, a lot of brick, a lot of white sand bunkers, a lot of plantings, et cetera. And the 1941 photograph showed it was anything but it was really a very rustic sort of North Texas landscape. Wow, that's so interesting because when I've played colonial now that I think about just the river that you kind of know is there, but you don't really see. And so I imagine, has there been a little bit of tree cutting near that river and have you all actually planted any trees out there? Yeah, so both we did cut down trees along primarily along the fifth hole so that you can see now into the river and at least understand that it's over there and up around the green, we took a lot of trees out in order to actually bring the river potentially into play. As you know, it's a long hard pour for the work. And so, I mean, if you've lost one now, you might actually go down closer to the river instead of rattling around in the trees, which I think is part of the original. But then you're right, colonial has always been a tree-lined golf course. Before he passed, I had the amazing opportunity to have lunch with Dan Jenkins. And we talked about colonial, obviously, that's his hometown and he was so close to Hogan and Nelson and he understood that golf course and he said to me, "Gill, that was a dark golf course." He said, "You were always hitting like in dark corridors and the greens were, you know, trees were overhanging the greens and it was really, that was part and parcel of it." So what we did was where some trees had been removed, we put trees back, we tried to bolster and ultimately try to get trees that would replace trees that might fail because they're starting to get a little bit close to their life expectancy. So we have probably a well-deserved reputation for cutting a lot more trees. I was about to ask you that. I think this one we might actually have a net plus on the overall golf course. Oh man, I think there's traditionalists and guys that love playing old school golf courses that are cheering right now, that there's been trees added to a restoration project. And you kind of touched on, would you call it a barranca that kind of runs through a creek? What would you call it? Yeah, we've had all kind of barranca, but then I was corrected by a Texan who said, "Well, that's the Southern California term, that's not, we call them dry washes here." All right, dry washes. So, you know, dry washes is, you know, that's a part of colonial country club. It kind of works its way through the golf course. And I think if I recall correctly, the eighth hole is one of the biggest changes that y'all have made to the golf course from just a general way out standpoint. Just kind of tell us exactly what the changes made on the eighth hole and what y'all are trying to improve on. Yeah, so that we had this great photograph, or had a number of photographs of that hole in the Trinity River before they straightened it in the 60s, used to zigzag and weave its way around. And they had several golf holes that basically were impacted by and the eighth was one of those. And then when they straightened the channel, they moved the green away and kind of inland, so it really didn't have any, I mean, unless you hit the world's biggest block, you're never, you're not going in the river. And so we couldn't replicate that just for permitting reasons with the Trinity River, but we did look, and there's a tributary, the one that actually runs in front of 15, 17, 18, 10, and then runs all down the right-hand side of 11. That tributary actually exits the property right where the, where the eighth tee was. And so what we did was we built the mirror image of the golf hole, the 1941 hole that we've got the photos of Hogan. And so now instead of the water being on the right side, it's on the left side, it green sets up this huge bluff, and it's 30 feet down to the water. But we looked at the bunker patterns, we did the best we could to try and figure out what the green looked like and through the descriptions in the program, but also the photographs. And we feel really good about what we built there. It's definitely a dramatic change. Because that eighth hole never really fit the golf course. I remember playing it. It just was a random hole that just kind of appears in the little forest area by the river. And now that that, that tee box, what used to be pretty far back there, I imagine it's allowed you to maybe push back the seventh hole a little bit or maybe find a little extra room there at number seven. We did. Yes. And now the seventh green goes back. And I mean, not quite to the river, but it goes back pretty far. We've got maybe 30 yards. So it's got it's and it now sits up on that bluff and you've got this sort of valley in front of it, which is the dry wash that runs along the fifth hole down the left of the fifth hole cuts across the sixth tee. Now is extended and runs across. It's, it's turf, but the, you know, the landform of that barranco cuts across in front of. So it's really is pretty dramatic up into that green. That's going to be an incredible hole. It used to be, you know, when it was years that it was firm, you could hit three iron, two iron off that tee and sometimes front pins have wedges in. So I imagine it'll actually make guys pull the driver out because, you know, left there has never been any good on that seventh hole. So that's a really cool change. And what about the rest of the golf course? Would you say that rust, the rustic kind of look that you're talking about? Are you going to be able to see that on TV or any certain hole that's really, it's really brought out to where it's a lot different, maybe any other par threes? Yeah, it'll definitely be apparent as you look at the bunkering now is, is kind of reminiscent of what we did at Southern Hills. It's got more of an erode. It's not like tall grass on the edge. It's still Bermuda, but it's got more of a lot of little bumps and fingers going there. And so that'll be readily apparent. You know, the hole that's kind of where it's going to just show up the most is 17. Yeah, we took the concrete spillway out. So, Emiliano Grillo's, you know, watching that ball slowly, Plinko, it's way down the concrete channel. That's gone. That's not happening anymore. So we've restored and opened up a creek. And so the creek runs through. So the water that goes alongside the 16th, we also picked up the 16th green and shifted it over. So it's right up against the the creek. Now that's all open. So when you watch, I think the images from 17 are going to be completely different. It's going to give that sense of the creek and how the whole thing runs through there. Wow. So you knew and you mentioned to that colonial is a very flat piece of property. So one of the things I imagined for just drainage purposes is just being able to catch the water and move it off the property and finding different creaks that you can use. Is that kind of the idea behind that? Absolutely. Yeah. From an engineering perspective, they can move the water through the golf course so much quicker now. I mean, it's amazing. And, you know, when they built it, TCU was up there, but it wasn't what it is now in the football stadium is, you know, that whole neighborhood is basically all the water that comes off of those roads and all the water that comes off of campus eventually winds up going through colonial to get down to the Trinity River. So there was a large engineering scope to this that basically, how do we handle all this water in a more efficient way without it backing up and flooding the golf course. Man, that is, that is pretty smart. And that's the way to do it, especially with the heavy rains that you can get, whether it be the summertime and sometimes the colonial week, you can get some some pretty, pretty brutal weather at least once or twice that week. But another question on the golf course too. I imagine when, you know, you probably have these certain holes in mind, like, for instance, the 13th hole or the 8th hole holes that you already know going into that you're going to be making somewhat dramatic changes to. But is there another hole in the golf course? You kind of already mentioned the 17th hole that's going to look visually different. But from an architect standpoint, any hole that's just surprised you that that got better, that was one that you weren't expecting. No, that's a great question. I think, I think the hole that'll be surprising is two. I mean, two is not one anybody ever is going to see on TV, and it's a shortish par four. Yeah. You know, restoring the bunkers in a way that now you really have to think, you know, do you want to carry the one on the right, carry the trees down that side, you want to play out to the left. And the green, like all the other greens on the golf course, has been brought down dramatically. I mean, so I think that hole, when you now stand in the fairway, the green is basically just above fairway level. Wow, that's so different. It's, yes, it completes. But it's what was there. I mean, looking at those old photographs, all the greens basically sat down at ground level. And so what we did is we cut them down. So I think from a visual standpoint, it's almost disconcerting. When you look at that one, that one in 17 are the two greens that you look at. And go, wow, they were so pitched up. Yeah. And it's been so sharp. Yeah. And so I think there's some interesting hole locations there. I think that the shot off the tee is really a thoughtful one, which is what I, you know, we like it when guys have this seriously think about, okay, which shot do I play? And by shifting the bunkers around and putting them more in play, especially there was one in the approach coming down from the left hand side of a guy's going to hit driver. You know, none of us want a 40 yard bunker shot. And so that's now really in play. And I think in all honesty, when you've got greens that sit up and they're kind of apparent where the definition is, you know, as a player, you probably focus a little bit more on hitting that shot. But when they sit down, like I said, it's almost a bit like you get a little bit like a days ago, like, okay, you know, it's just, it's almost too simple. And I'll be curious to hear the players' reactions when they think about when they see, you know, sitting down, we know from a member standpoint, it's going much more playable and much more accessible. But you guys don't ever, I mean, we were joking about this with Ryan Palmer, we were out there walking around and I said, you know, lowering the greens, you're never ever going to see a tour player in the fairway go watch this. I'm going to try to knock down a little seven iron and scoot it up the approach and run it on the green. And that's just never part of the car process. So you guys play an aerial game, but a member might actually try and hit a shot like that. Or if they miss a shot, they can get away with it as opposed to being, you know, rejected off of those elevated greens. So that's one of the things I'll be most interested to watch is the presentation of the greens. We know they're going to be firm, they're brand new, they're going to be rock hard, they're in great condition, rich in his team have done amazing, they're immaculate. So we're excited about that, but the combination of the lower profile of the greens with the firmness will be interesting to get the players' reactions to sort of from a mental standpoint as to how they approach them now. And the system underneath the greens, is that the hydronic system? Is that what it's called? Like the cooling and the heating of the air? Cooling, yes. Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, I imagine from an architect standpoint, that's the challenge, right? Because it's only a few golf courses that are rich in history, like Colonial Quail Hollow, in which you show up and they have a PGA tour event every single year that they have to test the best players in the world. And Colonial has stood up to the test of time and been very challenging to these players, but still, you got to go in there. And when you restore a golf course, you have to look at not just the PGA tour players, but the rest of the membership. So that's the, I imagine the challenging part of in the balance of making it modern, but also like playable, right? Yeah, and I think everyone, you know, a lot of people talk about, you know, we all geek out about golf architecture, but everybody appreciates good maintenance. Right? Whenever you ask your friends, how was the golf course? They don't go, well, it was really thoughtful. I had to, you know, think about every tea shot. You got friends like, no, the greens were great. You know, it was the, it was in great condition. That's always the first thing everybody talks about. And so I think from a member's perspective, having all that infrastructure now and having a rich Macintosh and team in charge or, you know, the conditioning should be amazing. So yeah, whether they, hopefully they like the architecture, be it if they don't, the improvement from a standpoint. And that's also something that you guys appreciate. Show up. You know, frequently or almost always, you get the course in the best possible conditions going to be in all year. Well, now what we're hopeful is the colonial and its best week, which has always been tournament week will be a lot closer to tournament week in their worst week, as opposed to in the past. So I think design wise, the players that show up are going to see a golf is going to feel familiar. It's going to be different, but you know, so they're not going to be like, oh, you drop me into outer space in some place completely new. But it'll be interesting. And you know, this is all I do. The scoring that first tournament is going to be almost a referendum on the architecture. And you know, it couldn't be further from the truth because we don't know what kind of weather we're going to get that week. I mean, if the wind blows and its firm, which we know, it'll be firm and it's dry. Yeah, it's going to be hard. And everybody's going to say, wow, Gil and his team, Jim and Josh McFadden, these guys did an amazing job making it hard. If it's soft and it's wet and those guys just throwing darts everywhere and the winning scores, you know, 18, 19, I think, boy, Gil really screwed that up. So it's one of those things where you know, we know in our heart of hearts that we believe the architecture is better. We know the infrastructure is better. The members are chomping at the bit to get out there and play it. You know, they're not going to be able to play it till after the tournament. And as you mentioned, you know, at the start, that was the one that gave me even more gray hair. It was just thinking about how are we going to get this done in time. And you know, I'm happy to report after walking around it last week. It's if we get a little bit of heat and the Bermuda gets growing and we get all the rough up a little bit, it's ready. And you know, and that's a testament again to Rich and to the bar golf and to heritage golf. I mean, we have a mother nature. Thank you because it was one of the driest summers we've ever had. And hot too, right? Yeah. It wasn't great for everybody else, but it was great for colonial projects. So we, you know, we got it done. We're really proud of what we're going to show off here in a couple of weeks and hopefully the players enjoy it. Is there any air conditioning in those bulldozers for you? Yes, a hundred percent. Okay. I was about to say, I would imagine those things that get so hot without it. Yeah, it used to be way back dating myself when, you know, they, they used to not have caps. So you're like out in the heat and it was, you know, now they're, now they're very, very comfortable. Okay, that's good to hear. I got two more questions for you. Sure. One quick one here with, are they, are, I'd heard a rumor that they were potentially thinking about it. Are they potentially thinking about flipping the nines? Is that something that is happening this year or something that they're just looking at doing down the road? That's, it's a conversation that's ongoing right now. This year, they'll play the golf course the way it's always been played. Yeah, they're talking because the horrible horseshoe three, four and five never get on TV. And obviously it's one of the strongest parts. And now with the revamped eighth and the revamped seventh and nines always have been a good golf hole. Nines brutal. It always, it's either a three or six sometimes. There's no in between. Yeah, so they are talking about, but that's a, that's way of my pay grade. That's a TV and a sponsor's situation. Gotcha. So that's not like something that was back in the 1941 US Open where the nines were switched. I was just, I wanted to know if that was, okay, that makes sense. Last question for you here and, and you know, you've been involved in a bunch of high level restoration projects. You mentioned Southern Hills and, and also here Colonial and, and a bunch of other ones. From your standpoint, do you enjoy doing these projects more or do you like the ones where you have just an open piece of land where you're able to kind of have the canvas and be an artist and create something that has kill hands his name on it. Definitely a new course. We, you know, it, because of the creativity, because of the freedom, the flexibility. Now, don't get me wrong. We, we love doing these projects and when we sign up for them, we understand that, you know, our focus is going to be perimaxle. It's going to be telling us it's going to be rain or it's going to be those things and we're 100% comfortable working in that world and we learn a lot. I think we, we benefit as architects from that. But, you know, for a number of reasons, the creativity, the opportunities that New Golf Course is present to themselves, but then from a practical standpoint. You know, when you're building a New Golf Course, you're dealing with one owner or two owners and they've hired you for a reason and they're happy to have you there and work with, when you work with a club, you know, it's 1000 members. There's probably at least 200 that are not happy or there for whatever reason or opposed to the project, etc. So you're dealing with the restoration projects are a lot more political, which extends a little bit more energy, whereas with the new projects, creativity, excitement, piece of ground, but also a lot less politics. Yeah, I imagine that makes, that makes a whole lot of sense. And, well, Gil, this has been a fun little conversation and thank you for taking a break from your bulldozer. I imagine that maybe a flat white over there is in your future and back on the bulldozer to finish finished work this afternoon. Did they? 100%. Yeah, they're taking the time. Yeah, they have the best coffee here. As you know, they do. Yeah, the flat white is so good. So thank you again. We'd love to do this again sometime. And we always like leaning on a guy like you get all the knowledge in the world. So we appreciate you spending a little time with us. Thanks, smiley. I had a great time. Thank you. See you, buddy. Don't just ride the index, seek to outperform it with Fidelity Active ETFs. Learn more at fidelity.com/active ETFs. Before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. Fidelity brokerage services LLC member NYSE SIPC. A lot can happen between falling in love with a house online and owning it, between imagining living there and breathing in your new home for the first time. Having an advocate who can help you navigate the complex world of financing, inspections, negotiating, analyzing the market, and talking through any anxieties that may pop up, that can make all the difference. That's what the expertise of a realtor can do for you. Realtors are members of the National Association of Realtors and bound by a code of ethics, because that's who we are. There you have it. Super cool conversation with one of the most prominent golf course architects, designers in the game of golf right now. Gil Hance and super excited to see. Get that first look at his work this week alongside Jim Wagner, what they did at Colonial. Adding a little context there. Hope you're able to enjoy that on YouTube with the full visuals and if not, there's some great accompanying set of photos of a presentation that he put together that really kind of brings it all to life. Now, I'm really excited where we're going next, because I, when, when, you know, post last year's Charles Schwab challenge, when I was reading about this restoration, I was, I had a great laugh reading about. Ryan Palmer's involvement in this that essentially they had a sit down with, with the variety of members of colonial and Gil was very kind of gracious to spend his time to sit down and talk to the membership and let them ask him anything. And Ryan just sort of grilled him. He said, Hey, here are a bunch of clubs you've done where there are holes that I don't like. You know, this club, what were you thinking on that hole in this club? What were you thinking on that hole and Gil took the time to answer all those questions and explain to Ryan what he was going to do with the course and, and, you know, excited to kind of find out, you know, how Ryan feels about it. And now that we're a year on and we're preparing for the Charles Schwab challenge with the newly prepared course. So anything to add to that smiley in terms of Ryan Palmer and his involvement with Gil and colonial. I mean, RP is just the best. So he's, he's such a great dude. And he's a lot like Kevin Kiser. He, he tells you exactly how it is. And I think for somebody when it means so much to you, that's where you, where you play. You know, I think you just don't want anything for the, you know, for an architect to come in and just screw anything up, you know, take it away from what, what people love about colonial and what PGA tour players love coming back to. And playing colonial just, it's just such a cool spot. And RP is a, he's a fun one. And I know he's a y'all are going to really enjoy this conversation. Straight shooter. Anytime you get compared to Kevin Kiser, maybe not anytime, but most of the time it's a high compliment in this context very much so. So we'll not waste any more of your time. We're going to kick this conversation right over to smiley and Ryan Palmer. Here you go. Ryan Palmer joining the smiley show buddy. Thank you for coming on. And we had kill hands just recently come on to do a little talk about the restoration project to colonial and nobody was closer to that project than you. Ryan, just give us a state of where the golf course is and just kind of, you know, where your expectations were before the project and where the finished project is now. Yeah, first of all, thanks for having a smiley. But no, I'm excited for it. First of all, it's, it's been a long year for colonial but I was out there a couple weeks ago there in Nelson and walking around doing some media and it's, it's going to be awesome. Going back to the beginning. I was very, I say cautious. I'm not, I was cautious just skeptical. Yes. We had a big lunch meeting with Guhans, our GM, our head of our Greens are superintendent and went through his ideas and what he's thinking went through the his game plan his whole sketches and, you know, we were sitting there talking the first time with myself and James Evanston, you know, as a member there. Mm hmm. And we started asking rather, rather, rather bad James like, are you going to mess this one up at all? What's your plan for this golf course because we've had some struggles and, and holes in the past and he laughed and, and he goes, yeah, I never, I'm not. I probably messed up a few holes and upset some players but our biggest, our biggest thing was, we don't want this to change because players love it. I mean, every player I talked to before it happened said don't change you don't touch it. But it needed a face. I caught a facelift. Yeah. Yep. But we went through every hole and we talked about the Greens mainly. Hey, are you planning on changing greens or what's your plan? And he said, from the beginning, I'm going to laser the Greens and put them pretty much back to what they were slopes and dimensions. And so that had a, you know, put a good feeling in our, in our thoughts and, you know, then we went out there and went through the golf course talked about a lot of things and it was really cool to be a part of it, you know, hadn't been part of any kind of golf design. But yeah, you know, the history of colonial and being a proud member there. It really, it was, it was an awesome feeling, very honored to help him out with it. And it was cool to go out there during the destruction and seeing him on the bulldozer. It showed me a lot, you know, when he was out there moving dirt, tells you his, his love for it and his pride he has. And now I'm excited about it. I can't wait to play today. I haven't played it yet. But I'm excited for the players to see it. So today is day one that anybody is allowed to play the golf course. They played last Saturday, they had about 50 members in a lottery get to go out and play it. I was supposed to play it, but I couldn't do it. Daddy duty called. It's why not hear everybody loved it. But no, so yeah, today, the first, I guess, full day of golf and we'll see how it reacts. Yeah, and just all right. So you walked the golf course and for for those that are familiar with colonial or even those that aren't just kind of your biggest takeaways of, I know the eighth hole is a big change that Gil kind of talked about. But any other holes to that stick out that you feel like that are going to be awesome. Yeah, it's unbelievable. What do you do with a moving all the way to left against the ravine? It's a beautiful hole. He did a fantastic job there. You know, if there was any bigger changes, I would say he 12 a little bit and he backed up. I guess playing for 70 now. For those that know colonial, you can't get to the right bunker. You can't carry the left bunker. Really. They move the green right and up against kind of the hazard, I guess. Oh, how much that hole is always kind of blag is kind of because you could just bomb it over that left bunker. But now that's, that's going to be a much more difficult. It was it was the only hole in the golf course. You couldn't see the green pretty much or the fairway. So now with the green shift of the right, you see the green tee box. But now you're going to be hitting more of a, you know, seven, eight to nine. I'm just that green as opposed to wall wedges. Wow. And then 13 was really cool. He lifted it six feet and push it back a little bit. The part three and put bunkers in front of the green. So his whole idea was to go back to 41 the way it looked. Mm hmm. And he talked about it. It's funny. We're walking a couple years ago asking, what's the worst I used because you didn't renovate it. And he said, it's a historical restoration historical restoration. Okay, I like that because he didn't change much. I mean, he just wanted to make it more natural flowing like it used to be. Right. You know, he shall shallots of bunkering, more natural flowing ice called cookie cutter bunkers, big white faces. Yeah. I guess a national green and he made it more natural with the, you know, float the new flowing blank as he put in throughout. But as far as like strategy, nothing really changed except for number eight, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. One of the biggest things that I kind of threw in my two cents, I guess, is we took some bunkers out of play on a lot of holes. Because it's funny when God said about colonial, they try to hit it in the bunker because they're perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Yes. I mean, it's easiest bunkers to get out of. So a lot of the holes we took some bunkering out of play. For instance, number nine, we took the right bunkers out. Yeah. And then the left bunkers, we pushed up to about three, 300, I guess, something like that. So if you're laying back and you hit it left, you're no longer in a bunker. You're in the rough and you know how hard it is to run a chronial. So brutal. Yes. So that's a few of the things we really looked at to the bunkers. I don't 14 pushed it back 20 yards. Wow. Yeah, I'm saying we love that we know this has got the RP signature on it now. So, but no bunkers on three run the green to the bunkers. I don't for the part three. So those are your notebooks for the part three. No, so it's just like a natural kind of run up to the green now. Yes, but around it's all rough. So the idea was to make the pros play out of the rough more often because the bunkering we, you know, most guys are so good at it. And the amateurs struggle out of bunkers. So to look at the membership as well, we wanted the guys to have a better chance running the ball up on the green or, you know, chipping up on the green as opposed to taking three or four shots out of a bunker like a lot of guys do. So trying to make it more playable for the amateur when it comes to the bunkers. And obviously the rough at Cornell during our tournament week is always pretty pretty penalizing so that was a lot of it. And the 17th, all I know when they put the whole location on the front half of the green, you know, a professional golfer can get up and down from those bunkers but I imagine a member when you get down in that in those deep bunkers that that was just dang near possible. It was saying that he may have lowered that green a little bit and just kind of shout out that bunker as well. Yeah, he did a lot of the greens. You'll notice they lowered them about a foot or two each green. They brought them down a little bit. And they took the very bunker out of play. So there's no left from the left and then correct. And then yeah he did shout out a lot of the bunkers so a lot of guys aren't looking at a big flop top shot of a bunker you know the bunkers at 17 are still there. Green side but they're not as severe I guess you could say and then the green lowering a little bit but still it's, it's going to be a good whole coming down stretch. We built the T box. You and I actually remember there one day during all of it and we had T box built 10 12 yards further back into the right. Really? Like almost making a little more of a dog leg. It got overruled for membership corporate tent. So we don't get to use this year. I was out there like where's our T box and port underneath the bleachers. Oh gosh. Yeah, I would have loved to that one that because I would have been a cool little shot 17 and 18. Just there to the right. It was always that dried up Creek where golf balls would just start running down the cart path. Gil said like that's kind of like been changed where that can't happen as much anymore. Yeah, they built a more natural flowing. I guess is one of his brain because he put in there. But now it's more of a natural looking Creek. I don't think it's like a hazard anymore or penalty area. Yeah, what would you call it before it was just like a concrete stream concrete. I don't know. It was yes. I know you're talking about because a little three, four foot stretch of concrete. Yeah, balls just go via the tree would get that. It could be going way back on that thing. So it took all the concrete out and now it's just more. It's more penalizing. I think guys hitting it right on 18 or even right on 17 because it's going to come into play very easily because I'll have why he made it. But it looks more natural, which is really cool. I mean, it's going to be a spectacular viewer viewing it from the 16th green and just look so much more, you know, more Texas as opposed to, you know, made it. Made up concrete stream and all that stuff. So, yeah, I make sure I make sure to see it now with putting it out there when I get there today. Yeah. And I think one of the coolest parts of the y'all's renovation or excuse me, historical restoration, I should say, was the new technology are putting underneath the greens. Is that the correct term? It's basically just a refrigerator or a heater underneath the green in which you can run cool and warm water. Yeah, no, it's pretty cool to watch. They ran all this piping through every green watch them lay the coils, I guess you could say, on the surface. And the idea is, if you said you run cold and hot water through it so it tricks the green and the grass. Supposed to trip the grass to think it's 75 degrees instead of went into a 95 this week. So it's pretty unique. So he did it southern hills in Tulsa as a cool picture in their locker room. The whole golf course is covered in snow, but every green is, you see every green because they got the heaters on. Yeah, so, and then we did it here at the Carroll Golf Club where I practice that a lot. So become the new norm, a new. If you're going to have been in Texas on these these warm summers, you got to do that, right? Oh, it's it's unbelievable what it's doing. What the carol has done, they're green, but what clothes going to see in the summertime is usually we're playing in the summer. Exploding divots, spongy, slow. Now with the system, you can keep it, you know, like I said, no more fans on the grass. Going around and it tricks the grass to think it's cooler. So I'm excited to see a year of growth. I mean, that's going to take a little while to get it all growing in, but I think the colonial membership is in for a. It's going to be one of the best in the state before. And for the 50 or so from the membership that played in the lottery, he said they all enjoyed it, but did they were they saying that the greens were super firm, I imagine. Yeah, I thought of the GM a little bit, and I really hear much so on the firmness, but somebody said they were out there and I tend them to be pretty firm. I mean, and she's what happens when you get new greens, because they haven't had time to grow through and everything. So I'm sure they'll keep a pretty moist just to make sure, but I mean, I think they'll keep them a little firm as possible. It's going to be. It's going to be 21 under par this week. I can promise you that. No, you aren't. Last year, last year was eight under par from Emiliano Greo. So, yeah, we might be looking at a 400 champion here at colonial streets. That's what I love about it. It stands up every year to the test of time to these guys how good they are. Of course, the way golf is today these guys could play blindfolded and shoot 15 in the par. It seems like it's good as they are. That's why I'm on the mic, Ryan. I'm right. My two years away. I'm going to go join the old guys. There you go. There you go. Well, these guys are in for a treat, I think. It'll be tough. I heard the rough is up again, and I'm just saying to see some of their, some of what guys think. If I had to be nervous about one thing, it'd be 13 green. I'm curious what guys would think because of how you redid that one. And the number seven, we backed up a little bit. So guys are going to be in the driver more. I like that. It's a wonderful. Yeah, it's a good hole. Is your biggest concern on 13 just that the water is not as much in play because there's bunker short? Is that kind of the worry that it might be too firm? Well, funny fact here is last year, there were only six balls in the water on the weekend. They went into all the stats and they realized the water never really came into play as much. So the only thing that concerned about 13 is the design of the green. They put it. There's a big mound in the back that slopes left and right. So I'm just, my only concern is if it's too big, too severe, the green still flows kind of the way it did before, kind of back to front sloping. I guess you're looking at it right to the right side. Yeah. Yeah. So, but you got two great pans left and right. You can use that back slope. So that's my only, I'm curious to see how that one plays as far as the way that slope is designed. So, but the whole looks great. I mean, with the bunkering around it, it actually, it looks better than it did. So, he described kind of the look was like rustic. Do you, do you get a, do you get a sense of that when you kind of look at the property? Does it feel like what it used to to you? I think so. Like I said, we don't have those sticky cutter bunkering, the white sand. So he brought in a darker sand. Oh, that's going to look way different. So kind of like Southern Hills was with the, where the bunkers were kind of the grass flowing into the bunker. So it's going to be more, it's looks more natural and rustic is going to be where you use it. Just more flowing of the grass. It's not really man made. I guess it looks more, I mean, rust is a great word. There's no doubt about it. So kind of how, I mean, his whole idea was he went back to a lot of 1941 pictures. So the US open. Yeah. And that was kind of what his vision was with it. And, you know, it's going to take time to get that visual, I think, to let it all kind of growing in. But so far he's a, it's, it's turned out really well. Well, I'm excited to see colonial this week. And I'm excited to see Ryan Palmer hoist the trophy. But before you go, Ryan, I got to get your best Jordan speed story and your best Sean Payton story. Uh, my best Jordan speed story. I mean, was I feel like the one that comes to mind for me. I was at the Zurich didn't like, was it one of you that like waited up in the water or something like that Jordan did 100%. Jordan, the year before he finished third and 18 and yeah, we were either on the cut ladder one. I think you're on the cut line. Yeah, he, of course, I put him in the wrong spot, but he chose to lay up and yeah, he laid up in the water. I'm going to throw your double. Yeah, but I will say that the stands are no longer there. That saved him when he won, when he won colonial a few years back. I got finished third, but he left in the rough on 17 and hits this ball that would have been on 14 fairway. It was so hot. And it hits the stands stops, gets his drop and guess what Jordan does. What does Jordan do makes it tips. How good is that chip. That's always on the way. Yeah, it was one of those do. That's why you see it. You see me watching him and just kind of laughing like shocker. You know, and some of my favorite Sean Payton's were real quick. He cared for me at Greenbrier one year. Oh yeah. When he was right before they went to the Greenbrier for the Saints training facility. And two things he did that week was so funny. He got yards but for every day. He wanted yards because he's a sharpie to mark the pants and everything. So yeah, he had four yards books for one golf course. And it was the funniest thing ever, but the best thing was I'm on the putting green going through a putting drill. And I'm doing my drill. But of course, you know me, I'm chatting here chatting there and he comes over goes, damn it. Look, can we do this drug? Get out of here. We're talking to everybody. That's how to work. And there we go. Oh, ballcoats coming in. Oh, ballcoats came out. They were going the range of the first round. He goes, look, let's see on the range. Can we not talk to everybody on the range today. Just go practice one up and get out. I mean, let's go work. He's trying to play golf that afternoon, probably. Yeah, he's a. And he got stuck with the rain on Tuesday and a practice round. Oh gosh. And he said, man, I feel this cat is these kids with three arms. He's got the bag in one arm, the umbrella and a towel. So. I love Sean, man. Is Sean, does he have you convinced that that BONIX was the correct pick? Is he have you convinced and bought in? I talked to a few guys, but I'm here. We talked before the drafting. I know he's a big fan of McCarthy from Michigan. And he liked BONIX, too. I mean, they're comparing. He definitely compared BONIX a lot about Drew. Yeah. So he had a lot of comparisons with him. And those are those are two guys. So Ryan, do you remember? I think you may have even been there the year at Zurich. I went and met at Sean's office. This is the year that Patrick Mahomes got drafted. And he was telling me who he liked before the draft. He was like, Zay Jones, like, and we really like this quarterback that we're going to go try and get from Texas Tech named Patrick Mahomes. And I was like, man, I was thinking to myself. I was like, that's a bit of a reach, but good for you. And then, of course, somebody jumps up right in front of them before they take them. Yeah. So that week, Jordan and I and Griller and James went to the draft room, the day of the draft Thursday night. And we're sitting in there and Drew brings walks in the draft room with two of his buddies. And Sean said he drew never comes a draft. And so Sean comes over to us and goes, Hey, guys, watch this. I'm about to tell Drew we're drafting Patrick Mahomes. And so he walks over. Of course, he's talking to him telling him. And then he loved Patrick Mahomes. He wanted him bad. And of course, the trade happened and, you know, they don't give him and they end up having one of their best drafts at a long time in New Orleans. So, yeah, it was, he definitely wanted Mahomes, that's for sure. That'd be like walking up and telling Aaron Rodgers. Hey, we're about to draft Jordan. Well, I imagine, but probably Drew Brees can handle that a little better than Aaron would imagine. Well, Ryan, this was great, man. I have a great week out there at Colonial. Look forward to watching on TV. I know you're super proud of Colonial, just the history there. And really looking forward to another great championship, the Charles Swab Challenge. Now I'm excited for the players, the tour, the world to see Colonial again. And it's my, can I do your par three entertainment one, one week next year. Yes, please. Absolutely. Our P's going to join. I mean, our P's going to join the happy hour. You hear you heard it right here first. Bring the old guy in. Yes. And I just, I was just thinking in my head, I was like, I have a hole in one at Colonial. I made a hole in one at 16. There you go. Yeah, I actually kind of like kind of scrapped one out to the right, hits the side of the bunker that it funneled down to that left pin in a practice round, but it's fine. We count it. That's right. It doesn't matter. All right, R.P. Go get them this week. Thank you, buddy. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Molly. See you. Hey, Fidelity. What's it cost to invest with the Fidelity app? Start with as little as $1 with no account fees or trade commissions on US stocks and ETFs. Hmm. That's music to my ears. I can only talk. Investing of all the risk, including risk of loss, zero account fees, apply to retail brokerage accounts only, sell or assessment fee not included. A limited number of ETFs are subject to a transaction-based service fee at $100. See full list at Fidelity.com/commissions. Fidelity brokerage services LLC member NYSE SIPC. When you find a deal on your favorite thing in the McDonald's app and order it, does that technically count as online shopping? Save money with the app. Bottom up up up up. I participate in McDonald's. Prices may vary. All right. There you have it. That was Ryan Palmer on Gille Hans' colonial restoration and a variety of other things as well. But it was great to have Ryan on given his involvement in that process. And as we've noted before, excited to see how it all turns out and what sort of hand Ryan had in that process. But now we are flipping over to a portion of the show that I guess we used to really look forward to. Maybe feel a lot of pressure around the one and done picks. But the update of the one and done picks is that there is no update because we both missed the cut last week with John Ramon Lou Bigoberg. And in fact, the person on the show who did the best was a guest. Fat Perez who took hit the gala. So we're really hoping you tailed Perez's picks and neither of bars because we would earn you exactly zero dollars. Our apologies. We're now six for our last 13th, but I'm feeling a big bounce back week coming here. I'm really feeling excited. There's some guys I like on this board. And so I'm just going to kick it out. It is your first pick this week. So how are you feeling? What kind of names you have in the mix this week and who are you going with? Oh gosh, I have too many, really too many. Can I just list off the names I'm like thinking? Yes, because we're now we're getting full Prognal Scared Mode. I can't decide if I just want to go ahead and just take Tony Fino. I think he's he seems like to me is like a top 15 lock. I just think he's hitting it too well with his irons. He gets it high up in the air, which is why with the firmer greens I'm kind of leaning towards Tony Fino. I'm also really considering taking like some sweepers. Like I think we Hodges is a guy that had a really good week last week. Tom Hokey's a really good iron player, but I'm a little worried about just playing at home and him just having too much pressure on himself. I don't know, but that'd be a great story. Justin Rose is another one who just played well last week at the at the PJ Jamie chip. So I'm thinking like, you know what, maybe he's if he has the ball striking there, he can put his way to a win. He's won at Fort Worth before. And that's why I'm thinking I'm probably going to take Justin Rose. I'm not in love with it, but I'm I think I'm going to save Tony Fino for like a rocket mortgage. It just seems like to me that's a no brainer week for him. So I'm going to take Mr. Justin Rose. I love that pick so much because I was between two guys and Justin Rose is the first guy that came to mind because as you noted, he won this event in 2018. You know, if you're looking at some kind of key metrics and stats that informed decisions here. He's one of the guys names keeps keeps popping up. He feels like he, and he's coming off a T six performance in in the PJ championship was sitting in great. How to, you know, shot 64 on Saturday and then follow it up with the with the 69 on Sunday. And so he is he's playing great right now. But then I said to myself. Charlie, that's not who you are, man. Like you got it. You got to think about when you were when you were doing wellness one and you were just kind of pulling names. You're pulling rabbits out of hats. You had, you know, Jake Knapp. Oxhade Batilla. We got to go deeper on the board of this. And so I'm going to a guy who I absolutely love. I tried to take him at the Byron Nelson, but he was not in that field. And I feel like I feel like this is a a stone cold lock. This guy's winning the tournament. It's a Charlie him guarantee. Austin Echo. Yeah, it's a great pick. It's a great pick. And I saw Austin's name and I I considered him this week, but I just, it's hard to win twice in the same year and I just want to pick a winner. I do think Austin Echo just seems like an automatic top 20 this week based on how good of a ball striker that he is. I think he'll have no problems out there. So I think it's a, I think it's a really good pick. And I'd love to see Austin Echo get a second win of the year because he had a good week last week too. He had to give us T 18 the PGA 67 67 69 70. Yeah, I mean, in all seriousness, I mean, obviously it's going to be hard to win twice on the PGA tour, especially as a guy who's not necessarily a household name yet, but every time I watch Austin play, I just, I love so many parts of his game. And he just feels like one of these guys that, you know, is could be a stalwart in that top 50, even that top 30 Eastlake crew going forward, you know, given more time and experience. And, and, and so it's probably one of those guys that I'm a little bit too in love with when I look every week to fill out a DFS lineup or make a one and done pick. But so be it, you know, that's just how these things work. So I'm riding with Austin Echo this week. You're riding with Justin Rose. I love both of them. We'll put both those in DFS lineups. Of course, there are not prices yet at time recording, but we are, we're going to ride with those guys. So there you have it. I feel good about those. I feel good about those. And the only other guy too, if like you're going to take a favorite, Colin Moore college just seems like, don't you feel like this is a great golf course for him. If I, if my memory serves me correct, it was the first event coming back from COVID and they played at colonial and Daniel Berger beat Colin Moore Cowell in a playoff. So I'm pretty sure that's correct. I know Daniel Berger was the winner. And Daniel Berger is actually playing this week. So he's another player that I'm not sure exactly where he's going to be priced out, but probably some great value on a player that's gone around this place and done really well. But dude, just Colin just, it just seems like he's going to have a really good week, right? Like it might be dumb. Not taking him. You know, I don't, I mean, it's a tough one because I just never know how to play that. If it's, if it's coming off of, and, and shoot, I played it wrong last week. You know, for me, I, everything about, if, if Xander was, you know, just a blind resume guy and you're looking at all the stats coming off of the Wells Fargo and even though he didn't win, he's just been a top 10 machine and he hasn't been cutting forever. You're like, yeah, that guy going to a course where it's similar to Quail Hollow. Like he should win this event. But I just had this hesitation of like, is it going to be an emotional let down or, you know, is it going to be, you just, you lose there and you get a bunch of injury. Try or you expended a bunch of energy rather trying to win a golf tournament. And you didn't get it done. And is it going to kind of mess with your focus coming into the next week? Well, it clearly did. You went out and won the golf tournament. So I wonder if Colin, you know, maybe there's a little bit more, you know, energy expended at a major championship for him to kind of come up short the way he did in that final round. Does that hurt him this week? Or does that make him more motivated? And he's like, screw it. I'm going to go out and win the next one and show people that I belong, you know, amongst the favorites of the US Open and beyond. It could go either way. I just, I want to pose this question to you of these four guys. Tony Fienal, Jordan Spieth, Colin Moore Cowen, Max Homa, rank them one, two, three, four. If you're heading in this week. Okay. So, okay, so we have, we have Fienal, Moore Kawa, Spieth, Homa, did I get all four? Yep. So, and we're talking colonial, correct? Yep, colonial. I would go. Oh, man, this is, this is tough. I think I go. Fienal, Moore Kawa, Homa, Spieth. Okay. Yeah. I, I tend to disagree. The only thing that's holding me back about Jordan this week at comonial and maybe having a little lower down is he used to put these greens as good as any greens out on the tour. Now that they're going to be ripped up, probably going to be breaking way differently than he's accustomed to. I think that to me is like a half shot to a shot different to where he was able to kind of just get in, get that putter out. And he just always putted these greens well. So I think there's going to be a little learning curve on that. And maybe his iron game shows up this week and shoot. He's, if that shows up with the way he's been driving the ball, he's, he needs to be at the top of that one, two, three, four, but I'm probably a little hesitant like you and believe a little bit more. And how good of an iron player that Tony Fienal is right now in Max Homa and then just take the form of Colin Workhouse. I'm not too far off of what you just proposed there. Yeah. I mean, I, and that's no disrespect. I mean, that's a, that's a list of four elite players. It's kind of, it's, it's to go on a tangent a little bit. I've got a feeling about Jordan. I mean, that's a, that's a list of four elite players. It's kind of to go on a tangent a little bit. I've got a feeling about Jordan and Trune. Do you feelin about Jordan? I just, I just keep. I'm thinking about who want to plug in there. And I'm thinking about like a Jordan speed Renaissance and like, I just, I feel like Jordan and Trune. I don't know why they're going together on my head, but I, I'm a, as you know, I'm a big vibes guy. I'm a big gut guy. I listen, I listen to my guy when it tells me take Jake. Nap in the Mexico open. And so that's, that's what my, that's what I'm kind of feeling right now. So that's down the road. That's where I like Jordan's. That's why I may be saving him a little bit. But yeah, I mean, I think any of those guys you listed will be a great, if you're trying to go with like a, if you have the flexibility to just take a front runner, your one and done, you still feel like you're covered for the rest of your one and done season, you know, use one of those guys there if you don't feel like you're burning someone you're saving for somewhere else. And to be quite honest, that's what I probably should do too. But it's more fun picking us in Echo and then just being like, I picked Austin Echo when he went. So that's why I'm right in that direction. We're just in rows. It's a good one too. So, so you have it. Those are the colonial one and done picks. And that is the conclusion of this episode. Hope you enjoyed here from Gillahans, Ryan Palmer. And yeah, we'll be back here on Sunday or Monday, depending on the timing of my golf trip to Sandhills to recap all the action from Fort Worth. We're looking forward to seeing you then. Thanks for watching and listening and we will talk to you. Hey, Fidelity. How can I remember to invest every month? With the Fidelity app, you can choose a schedule and set up recurring investments in stocks and ETFs. Oh, that sounds easier than I thought. You got this. Yeah, I do. Now, where did I put my keys? You will find them where you left them. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity brokerage services LLC member NYSE SIPC. A lot can happen between falling in love with a house online and owning it, between imagining living there and breathing in your new home for the first time. Having an advocate who can help you navigate the complex world of financing, inspections, negotiating, analyzing the market and talking through any anxieties that may pop up. That can make all the difference. That's what the expertise of a realtor can do for you. Realtors are members of the National Association of Realtors and bound by a code of ethics, because that's who we are. [BLANK_AUDIO]
After the final putt dropped in the 2023 Charles Schwab Challenge, Gil Hanse and his team began an ambitious project: a "historical restoration" of Colonial Country Club to prepare it in time for the 2024 playing of the tournament. Smylie Kaufman is joined by both Gil, and four-time PGA Tour winner + Colonial member Ryan Palmer to discuss all of the changes made to return the course to its more rugged and natural roots with the 1941 U.S. Open as a reference point. Smylie and Charlie Hulme then conclude the show with their one-and-done picks for the tourney.
In addition to photos provided by Gil, our YouTube episode features footage gathered by the @PGATOUR and @FriedEggGolf from two awesome videos worth watching to prepare for the 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge. You can find those videos here:
TOTAL golf course transformation in less than a year! | Colonial CC | PGA TOUR Originals - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNApY5dlMOI
Bringing Rugged Back | Renovating Colonial Country Club...
