Are you ready to go down the rabbit hole? The All Things Alice podcast will explore the cultural phenomena of Alice in Wonderland. Frank Bader, the author of the Looking Glass Wars trilogy, is your host through a wonder-verse of interviews from all types of creators as they chronicle the dark yet empowering reality of Lewis Carroll's fantasies and answer the question, what is it about Alice that captivates us still today? The All Things Alice podcast, available wherever you listen to podcasts. From the team that brought you the award-winning show retro-replay and the Emmy-nominated comedy series Con Man comes a new idea just crazy enough to be good. Introducing Couch Soup! I know, I know, you're probably wondering, what is Couch Soup? Well, Couch Soup is content for your hungry nerd soul. Daily articles from fans, not pundits, weekly podcasts that contain a multiverse of opinions on all things pop culture, exclusive videos and weekly live streams where we laugh, scream and sometimes have technical difficulties, all created by folks like you, the gamers, the film nerds, the TV, bingers, comic book lovers, bookworms and pop culture enthusiasts all in one giant bowl of beautiful disgusting soupy goodness at CouchSoup.com Hey everyone, welcome back to Decoding Dragons, Couch Soup's watching Now podcast where we break down all things house the dragon where your host Liza and Michelle are feeling the royal tea and breaking down the fire for every episode. If you were with us last season, welcome back and if you're a newcomer, we're talking about House of the Dragon, the big players in the dance and of course, all of the dragons. So today we're here to talk about season two, episode four and we have guests. So first off, today we have Kaylin, who just launched her art and pop culture platform, the abstract Voyager where she showcases her stunning abstract art and her love of nerd culture, Kaylin, feel free to introduce yourself and where we can find you. Thank you very much for that amazing introduction Liza, but everything you said is pretty much straightforward. If you're looking for me, I am on TikTok and Instagram at the abstract Voyager or at the underscore abstract Voyager. I'm also on threads and I don't have an X yet, so don't go looking for me there. Okay, you're only going to find me on those two platforms. And I've been a nerd since birth and I'm happy to be here with you lovely ladies to talk about all of the things House of the Dragon. We are so, so excited to have you and we also have Lily from the art of Lily Kay. You may know her for her extremely realistic comic book art and she has been to so many cons. So I just know you have seen her around Lily, let us know about your stuff and where we can find you. Hello. And you've seen me here so many times. You're probably tired of me so many at this point. Well, I have my own web page, thankfully at this point, it's Art of Lily Kay.com. If you want to buy my stuff, you can do it there if you can come to the UK for the comic guns. And I am everywhere basically because I have to be, I hate social media, but like I'm doing it for you guys. So appreciate it. I'm Art of Lily Kay or the Art of Lily Kay everywhere. So, you know, find me, I'm funny sometimes, I'm depressed most of the time, so like, you know, it's, it's a good mix that is personal branding right there, I love it, I love it. I am a huge nerd, I am the Pope of the Church of the Blue Booty. And also I just started my new church, which is, which is the church of the, of the bicep. And you're going to find everything out about it during all the acolyte watching now. So be prepared for that. That's it. Yes, absolutely. Definitely check out Lily's watching now where she explains all of her new found a bicep appreciation. I think I'm so excited to talk about it. It's just going to be me just rambling about many a single and that's it done. Nice. Well, I am excited. First off, I think it's only fair that we start with a spoiler warning like we always do. I don't have my book with me today because I am actually winning it to Kaylin, so she can share my pain and frustration and yeah, so we do discuss the canon that the show is based off of. So at this point, I don't think it's going to spoil anything for you, at least not really, but you may find spoilers throughout. We try to save the biggest ones for our Dragon Dream section, but please know this show has spoilers for House the Dragon. Yes. But I think most importantly, we should get into our reactions. So how is everybody feeling about what happened? I actually want to know how you feel, Liza. I don't know if you do. Well, I don't know if you want to know how I feel either. Wait, so is no one going to share how they feel? Are we just going to conceal our feelings today? Conceal. Don't feel. I vote. How about we go. We go counterclockwise. We could do Lilly, Kaylin, Michelle, and then I will be the Debbie Downer that we all need. Oh, no. Well, it's not going to be a surprise to anyone who knows me. I cried my eyes out like just Don is like what? You're such a waterbag, Lilly. I am. I am. I cry on everything. If I'm not crying, then it's just bad. That's it. That's all you need to know about everything. If Lilly is not crying, it's bad. Don. I obviously read it as well. Huge fan. Like, you know, still, in tears. Well, so if you you've read it as well, so you knew it was coming. How do you feel like they did they do the character justice? Yeah. In the battle. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was very well, it's going to sound very strange and disturbing, but I was happy with it. Well, do I mean, he very said, I was like, I was still happy with it. I was like, yes. Oh, okay. Yeah. Uh, no, I liked that. I liked it a lot. I liked everything in this episode. I wanted to come in for episode four for a reason. I was like, something's going to happen here. And I was so right. And I am so right, lately, that I'm very happy. So I'm less depressed than I usually am. So yeah, I was, I was correct. I was correct. I cried my eyes out. Beautiful episode. My favorite episode so far in this season. This season. No, it is my favorite episode in season two also. But I wanted to say really quick. I see, is that Damon in the background? Like is, am I seeing Damon in the background? No, I was just about to say something. It's like ma'am. So this is, this is my drawing. And I originally wanted to give it to Matt Smith, but he liked it so much that he actually signed it and gave it back to me. And I was like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah, like, you know, you can sell it if you want it. I'm like, I'm not going to sell it, Matt. It's mine. Yeah. I'm going to keep it. I love it. So yeah. So this is my Matt Smith drawing. And he loved it. I have a tiny video of it because, you know, comic-con people are assholes sometimes and they don't let you feel them. But I was like, very sneaky sneaky. Sticky sneaky. Lovely. I love Matt Smith. He's the best. That is so cool. That is so cool. Okay. I have many games of throwing stories. So like, you know, she says, I need my own podcast to tell you all. Right. Exactly. Okay. Kaylin, what did you think? I feel bad going after Lily because I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan, not in a, not, and for the record, I just, I always have to say this when I come on the show. I am a casual Game of Thrones watcher. So I have not read the books. I only watch the TV shows. So I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who enjoys and loves to watch it with her best friend. And I'm just like, first of all, Rainy's is my favorite character. All right. She was one of the main reasons why I was watching the show in the first place and why I was, I was really dedicated to her, her power and the essence that she brings, not just the actress because her acting is amazing, but the presence of Rainy's and the wisdom that she carries was very reminiscent of Viserys, right, whom we miss. But I, I really, I want more punch. I want more, more interaction. I feel like this entire season so far has just been a world of buildup. And we've just been building and building and building. And I'm just like, like eventually we got to do something. And if this was one of the somethings, I will admit that, like everybody else said, I think this is the best episode so far. But that's also in comparison to the fact that we haven't really been doing much on screen. So I'm just kind of, I'm in the lull of waiting and I'm waiting and waiting. So that's kind of how I felt. It was, it was impactful because that's my girl and I definitely didn't want that to go. Like, I have emotions about her turning back around by herself that it makes sense to me. But move on, go to somebody else, anybody else, please. Okay. All right, Michelle, I agree with you. I was less impressed with this episode for a couple of reasons. You're right. I've been doing a lot of buildup to this. The only saving grace that this had was the dragon battle, right? Like that was cool. The CGI looked legit. The dragon battle was awesome, but the battle kind of got overshadowed at the beginning with Reneera trying to talk about the song of Ice and Fire and explaining it to Jason. So it kind of got overshadowed and we didn't have a buildup to the battle. We didn't have, let's talk about where everybody's going to be. Let's get a little bit more into the moment. It just went to, it was almost burning mill style where it was like, we're going to do this behind the king's back. And then we're going to piss off the king because he's a child. Now Reneera's going to talk about something really important that's going to distract you. And oh wait, now we're back at battle. I was just like, okay, I know. I mean, are we allowed to interject? Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. So I understood why they filmed it that way, right? With Reneera explaining it at the timing in which she was explaining it, I understood that it was supposed to increase the intensity of the moment. But when you've been having me sit down for three Sundays in a row now of constant discussing and the waiting and the, are we going to go to war? I don't want to go to war, but what if we do go to war? But war is bad. War is bad. Do I? By that time, I just want to see some really good politicking because right now we don't have a lot of politicking. And I don't want anyone to think that I'm just this bloodthirsty person who just wants gore and violence like that. Oh, I am. I mean, don't go baby. Like I love it. The point of the gore and the violence is so you can appreciate the peace and why it is important to understand the beauty and the perfection that comes with, I guess, the aftermath after such devastating things happen. And when you've been making us wait for that for so long, people kind of just want to see it. Like now I just want to see it. Like if I'm not mistaken, I'm probably going to botch the line, but Reney said there is no war more bloodier than a war between Ken and even more so that between dragons. I don't believe her because they're not in heaven. Like I'm just I'm just like, I know and lies out, we'll get to you here in a second. But the one thing that I did appreciate that was last episode, apparently they're trying to turn into this big pivotal point, right? This big pivot point where everybody's like, I guess that's it. I don't have any other options. I guess we're just going to get into it. And now Reney is kind of like turning on her heel and like, okay, let's go. And so they, right, right, like like three seasons ago, let's go. And so I appreciate, okay, I guess this is the pivotal point of this season that this is when we're all going to start going to battle and war. And then we got the smallest battle and a major death. Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead before we because because me clearly me and Michelle could do this all day. So you go ahead. My thoughts on the episode were I do think that I would have really liked this episode had I not read the book. So like this really felt like it was kind of getting its feet under itself. There were still some hiccups in my opinion, but it did feel a little bit more like what we were expecting, not because of, you know, the gore and the violence because I do understand that Game of Thrones is an argument against war. But in my opinion, we haven't even really been seeing a lot of politicking. So like pieces were moving this time. I have gripes that I will get into later on. But one of my favorite parts was the way that Gwayne was basically roasting Kristen. So that was fun. He roasted him. I call. Yes. And I there were a couple other good moments, but overall, I am of the opinion that I think that I'm going to stop comparing the show to the books. I think it's not good for me. I'm just going to I'm going to take the show for what it is. We'll still do our fire section where we break down the lore based on what we've seen, right? But I got to stop because I'm just holding the show to a standard that I feel like is unfair. So. Well, I don't know. Let's unpack that. It's unfair. It's based on the book. You make a strong point and I like that you brought that up because we talked about that. We talked about the fact that if you're going to do your own thing, right, then say inspired by say loosely based on say certain events. Don't say this is Game of Thrones house of the dragon and then because now you are relying on the merit and the love from the book fans because let's be real. Okay, you had to love the books before the TV show because if not, then I mean granted not for this seat, not for this series, right? Like you could have just came from Game of Thrones, love that show and then gone to the books. I mean, to this season, but at the same time, the whole person behind it or the force behind it are the book lovers. And when you say stuff like, oh yeah, it's based on the books. You just want to see what you read with a couple of things in between, right, for filler for the things that just don't make sense on screen and you want to see it and then they don't do it. You're just like, and then you're left looking like on the internet, you're left looking like the, oh, you just want it to be how it is in your head and you just, you just seem really pick him like, but was I wrong though? Like was I wrong for reading it and wanting to see what I read? Right. I don't know. I really, I really want to hear Lily's thoughts because Lily is just looking at us like, I don't feel the way y'all feel that I like that, like I like the difference of opinion. I'm just, you know, like, I'm trying to, like, you know, I have a style that I am usually, you know, into and I don't know if I get into it, like, okay, I will get into it because I'm like, just sitting here like, have you seen Game of Thrones? Because it's literally like build up until episode eight and nine and then suddenly, wow, all the shit happens and you're like, oh, that's great. But, you know, it's, it's a good build up and also, I do not agree with anything. You guys said I'm like, what? Yes. Okay. First of all, that's not true. House of the Dragon is watched by more people who have not read the book. I think it's like 70% more. So it's like 30% of the book lovers and then 70% who have never even opened the book. So it's, it's not just for the book lovers. It is mostly for, for people who have loved Game of Thrones, possibly. And then second of all, no, when you adapt to book, we should have learned this by now. Like, you know, when you adapt to book, it will never be the same and it shouldn't be the same. I think the magic of writing a book is that obviously you can write down so many things, how they feel, how they do, how they see the world, whatever. But there's only so much you can do to translate that into a series or a movie, especially for a movie because you have less time to do so. And I think what they're doing here is like, it's not perfect because it never will be perfect because if you read the books, you're gonna be like, yeah, that's, you know, that's a different case completely. But I think they are doing the best they can currently with the episodes they are getting with, you know, the budget that they are getting for it, they have fantastic actors, which is like, I think one of the most important parts of the whole thing. And I am, I'm glad that I am not seeing exactly what I read because I always like when they are brave enough to be like, it worked in the book, but I'm gonna do it my way. But it comes to my series. And I'm like, yes, still there are things that I'm like, but most of the time I'm like, okay, I'm on board. You know, I, to kind of riff off what you were saying, when the major runner was first coming out and they were like seriously deviating from the source material, I read it like the only thing that you could bring up and I'd be like, that is like, no, it was the major runner should not have deviated, but, but I saw a quote that made me think about what you were saying. They said that when you get new material in the show, it's an opportunity for people to see things that they wouldn't have seen otherwise. So like, because the major one took a completely different direction. And the person was arguing that you get to see the characters you love in multiple situations because you have both the source material, the characters are in. And you have the show where you see your characters that you care about kind of doing different things. So their argument was kind of that you technically get more content this way. And like objectively you do get more content. I am a book stickler, but I do see where you're coming from at this point. I just learned to enjoy it for what it is. And then enjoy the books because they are so much more than the movies can ever be. And I think when you can find a beauty in bold, that's when you're a piece in my work. Yeah, it works. I may have to. I'll go ahead, Michelle. Me and Liza have actually talked about that. It's ended up on the cutting room floor that when you're reading a book, it's your interpretation of the written word, right? And so when we're watching a show or a movie that's based on the book, then that is that person's interpretation of that. And it could differ from yours, but we're still only getting one person's interpretation whether it agrees with yours or not. And usually the author goes into so much detail that what is the point of deviating from that? If you're going to base it on the book that the author wrote, then base it on the book that the author wrote. What is the point of creative liberties if you're going to claim that it came from the same source material? My feelings. Mike drop, bitches disagree on this so I believe that's totally cool. I think before we go into a huge rant about adapting the source material, we should probably get into our blood section because I know that Lily also wrote a book, so I know that we could debate for days. Yeah. Yeah. But I love it. I love having everybody's opinions. Is everybody good if we go ahead and jump into the blood section? Go ahead. Here we go. Now that we have entered the blood section, which is where we talk about the show itself without the extra canon, what did you all think about Aegon and Sunfire because we finally saw Sunfire just to see poor baby get ripped to shreds, so we should maybe put a content warning for violence here. We're getting into the show and there was a battle, violence will ensue if you're not comfortable with it. We will see you next episode and thanks for being here on to Sunfire and that poor baby. Well, he had it coming. Dayo. He was a little bitch, I was like, no, get out of my way. You're awful. This is your best and it's to die on the battlefield because you're stupid. I'm not even sorry, but I feel bad for the dragon. I feel bad for the dragon because I love the dragons, the babies exactly make our because we there is a big bitch anyway, but I love that tiny, tiny bit of like, you know, that's my rider, that's my dragon moment between them. That was lovely. And then I was like, oh, well, it didn't, it didn't move me that much. I love the actor respect the actor always respect the actor because the actor and the character is two different things. I hope you will understand what I mean. Absolutely. No, we get it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Aegon is this bitch and he died and finally I was so happy, I was like, yeah. Almost a Joffrey moment. Almost. We were very close. Very close. Thank Kristin. Cold eyes celebration, baby. It's good. We're going to throw party in a celebration, baby. We're all by. No, I agree. I'm, I, I, from the moment Aegon stepped on the screen, I was like, you finna be a bitch. You're going to be a big little thorn pain in the ass. And I am always, it's not the dragon's fault. It's the rider. And I feel so bad for poor baby sunfire. Baby did not deserve that. But Aegon, oh, I wish that may leaves had like, like, unstrapped the saddle, thrown that little bitch up in the sky, juggled him, allowing some clouds, with some fire, and then dropped it. Right. But it just been beautiful. Yes. But, but no, I wasn't. May leaves battle in ass. Amazing. I don't want to talk about it. I am not well. Um, excuse me. I don't, excuse me. I don't want to talk about it until we have to talk about it. Um, but yeah. No, Aegon, Aegon, Aegon, Aegon, Aegon. Aegon. Whatever. Any of them. Right. You know, we should have called them pancake. So that's what happened to him. He went flat. Oh, yeah. You're a nice pancake as well. He was extra crispy. Right. Yeah. No, but, um, I will say though, that there was a really good moment between him and sunfire before he got on the saddle that I, regardless of how you feel about the character that was a good moment between writer and dragon, um, which, and I do enjoy the filming that they did between the parallels between how Rainy's was interacting with Mayley's and how, um, Aegon was interacting with sunfire. I did enjoy that parallel. Um, you've got this battle ready warrior and fighter about to get on her dragon and go wreak some havoc. And you've got this no experience, hot headed, completely ill prepared baby getting on another dragon. I did enjoy the way that film, that themography happened. Agreed. Yeah. Excuse me. The, the parallels were really cool. And he also just got on it because of spite, like, yeah, trunk is a skunk. Yeah. Oh my God. You're so drunk. I want someone to pay attention to me. It's my throne. Yeah. Yeah. Have a seat. Again. And it is. And Lily's like, I'll hold off yet it come in. We were ready for it. I didn't come in. If we would have incorporated that I, I would sing the song as well. Yeah. I didn't come in. Yeah. I don't know. It just proved that Aegon is such a child. He doesn't have any battle experience. He was not prepared. He just wanted to do it to do it and look what happened for sunfire. Poor baby. Sunfire. Okay. Did you, did you get everything off of your chest for? I don't want to cut you off. Okay. All right. I have a few thoughts. I promised myself I was going to keep myself like brief today. So I'll be really short and efficient. Number one, he can't speak. Hi Valyrian. His dragon. All he knew was decorous. And I appreciated that. Nope. That was neat. Um, number two, I too really liked like his smile and sunfire and that was just like pure dragony happiness. And I appreciate that. And number three, my poor little golden baby, like I don't know if it was on purpose, but the way that sunfire fell. If you read Fire Emblem, I think it's reminiscent of the way that Malie's fell around. Rainies, canonically, like in the book, they, that's the art I think they depict either. It was either Rainies, the sprainies or it was Maraxes and the other one, but there is a picture of a dragon like that. And it just seemed like sunfire like curled around him to protect him in sunfire's agony and pain. He, I think, still tried to like protect his writer and like, I appreciate moments like that. Like the dog and the rat catcher like, Hey, gone, it's horrible, but I appreciate that his animal cares about him because I think that does humanize a character, even though I can't stand him. I think it does humanize the character that your animal cares about you this much. And I thought that was really neat, which actually kind of brings me to Lily was saying that she doesn't like Veigar and I'm pretty sure they call pardon my profanity, but they call Veigar a hory old bitch. I think at one point and we see some of that attitude this time. What do you guys think about Amund's movement against his brother? Beautiful. I'm just going to skip everybody and say, Michelle said, fuck the line. Love it. Amen. Okay. I have to talk. This was going to be one of my questions, but it's, it's burning. I have to talk about it. The maturation between the last season when Veigar destroyed Luke. And now when Amund was like, yes, like the way that they have kind of bonded over how to battle together, I thought it was beautiful. I mean, I mean, this is the real MVP of this episode. Let's be fair. Yeah. I did appreciate Amund the most in this episode. Yeah. Even though he did a bad thing, I, this is the, this is the Amund that I've been waiting for. This is Amund. I've been waiting to like, show up. Yeah. No. He's a bad boy. I do like bad boys. I think that's clear from my history. Yeah. And you can see it in his face after Veigar went up against Maileys and, and Amund, Amund was just like, mm-hmm. Let's go. Okay. Yes. Best. Listen, I was really hoping that Amund wouldn't show up. In my mind, I really, cause can I give like my predictions? Can I talk about what I want to happen? Sure, yeah. Okay. As someone who has never read the books, and it's just a casual show watcher, here's what I want to happen. I want Kristen and Amund to secretly be planning away to dethrone Aegon, right? Like that's my idea. That's what I'm imagining in my head, right? So I, what I wanted to do is he just be like, you know what? If you go get yourself killed, I ain't got to do shit. So that's what I was expecting. That's what I was wanting in my head. But then he showed up and it was nice and he saved his brother and all that kind of stuff. But I did enjoy the shot with him with the sword, with him like sheathing it when Crispy Kristin Cole came up in there. He was like, in my mind, he was like, Amund, we can't kill him yet. That's how I saw it happening in my head. But no, I, I, I enjoyed Amund's, you know, I like the fact that he put his brother in his, like I like the fact that he put his brother in his pay, put his brother in his place at the, at the high council because, and I love the fact that he spoke to him in high Valyrian just to show the just because I was second born doesn't mean that I'm less than I have first born mentality. I got first born energy all day, every day. So I, I appreciated it. I like that. And I got to say like many like as literally spoiling as possible as literally spoiling as possible. We're not far off if that helps. Literally spoiling. Literally spoiling. Yeah. Yeah. We're not okay. That's enough of that. Okay. And that's as far, because you know, I will, I will rant. Yep. And I will ramble. So, okay. We do have to, we've kind of already talked about it, but like, is there anything else y'all want to talk about, about rainies and mailies? Because I have a few notes. Hold on. Hold on. Okay. I, because I wasn't here on the previous episode, I would just quickly say, I am one of those people who really appreciated that scene with the image. But I will also say this, everyone who is, who is body shaming the actor is an idiot because he has a beautiful swimmer body like that's how swimmers usually look like. He's ripped. Fuck. I was like. There he is. Damn boy. Yeah. Yeah. God. I definitely don't, I do not support the body shaming of anybody. Right. It's disgusting. It's unacceptable. The actor is still putting themselves out there, exposing not just who they are, literally who they are, but also it's a vulnerable moment for the character to do that as well. So, like I said, even if this part gets cut, I'm still being like, regardless, you don't do that to anyone period. I completely agree. That was really well said. Like I too, I think the body shaming going on for his actor is horrible. And I don't know about you guys, but when we discuss the show, I try really hard to talk about the character because I think that we're here to discuss the characters and not the people who are being vulnerable to bring them to the screen. Yeah. So the actors, fantastic. So I totally disagree with all that. I guess the hate he's getting because I do think as with like the material he is being given, I think that he's doing a good job. Like he has screen presence, plenty of attitude. So and I think I recently saw that he, I don't think he's had professional like acting training. Nope. We definitely keep the discussion of the characters here. We are definitely doing that. Yeah, but sometimes you can separate, especially when, you know, things like this happen because I'm, you know, the people as a whole became so just, you know, impatient, buttered over everything and just disgusting sometimes that I'm like, how, how could you do that? Like, you know, it's, it's still a person playing that role. And you're being awful because the internet is for everyone. Of course they're going to see it, even if they don't want it or someone will tell them, like, did you see what they're saying about you? And it's hurtful. It's still a person. Like, come on. No, 100%. It is, we try to definitely keep it like a positive place here because I agree that is so hurtful and it, nobody should have to deal with that, especially not as such a huge scale that these actors are because like you said, it's one of the most viewed television series of all time. It is. So yeah. Um, but I, I think he did really good in this episode. Like, Amen was my favorite part of this episode. I also really liked the logistics of, uh, mailies and baguars fight because if you've ever seen eagles, like that's how they do it, like the gravity spin and I thought that was like scientifically accurate, but I wanted you guys to think. It was beautiful. Like I was, I was just all of the, of the whole thing. First of all, the CG, I was just beautiful to look at, like, you know, imagine watching then back in the day when Hercules and Zina was on, I mean, if you think about it, we've only ever seen dragons battle once. And that was season eight of Game of Thrones and it was dark and nobody knew it was happening anyway. Um, so no, Michelle, it wasn't dark. You should have turned your brightness up. I did, by the way, I turned it up and it didn't help. It did not. I did too. So, uh, so it was beautiful to them. The only other thing that we've seen is Veigar Kill Luke and his dragon, Iraq. Yeah. Um, sorry. I just wanted to say Ajax, like the freaking dishwasher from death hole. It's okay. All I could think of was that wasn't even a fight. Like that, I don't know that counts. That was just. No, it doesn't. And so that's what I'm saying. Right? The only thing that we've seen in battle right now is this. And I think it delivered quite well. You can see how, um, experienced, both dragons were, you could see the experience of both riders actually, even though you could tell that Rainey's had battle experience and Ayman doesn't necessarily on a dragon. No, it was great. It was really well done. So good. Yeah. I agree. I think the, the choreography was good. I agree about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree. I think it was, it was beautiful. The only image that still keeps going through my mind, even after watching it was a, Malie's claw going into son fires chest. That's the one thing that I can imagine because it was almost like small dragon, medium sized dragon, big arse, bitch ass and you're just like, whoa, like the difference on the screen was so impactful, but just that one movement. Like you can tell that she, um, that Malie's was very strategic in her movements. Um, and Rainey's just like, my god, her battle, her battle visor crown visor. The, uh, the bond between Malie's and Rainey's and the way she just lean back and was like, let's go girl. Yeah. And like Malie's, um, a friend of mine and Kayla instant, um, us, a image of like Malie's turning back around to look at Rainey's and how it was so beautiful because, um, the image they sent came with a caption and it was like, it was like she was saying, I'm sorry, I couldn't protect you, but you know, we went to battle together. It was like, and I love you. And I thought that was beautiful, like the dragon, dragon rider bond is being done very well. Yeah. So sad as well, like, that's where I cried. If you can figure it out, that's where I was, I lost it. I was like, fuck y'all, he was almost, how dare you make me feel these things. No, that part got me as well. Beautifully done. Beautifully done. Agreed. And heartbreaking. No, that part got me as well. It's like that, and I knew it was coming too, and I was just like, it's still so sad. But I think the worst part of it, because like, you know, we read the books and, and, and you knew it, that it's going to happen, like, they're not going to shy away from it. That's not their style, thankfully. But I was still like, maybe they will, that would be so good, wouldn't make any sense, but it would be still good. I don't want to see that happen. And then it happened. And I was like, yeah, still heartbreaking. No, look, my self was watching that. And I was like, when she turned around, I was like, okay, you see that vaguars on the prowl? She saw that she had sunfire and vaguar down. My mind was, okay, she's going to go back and maybe try to gather reinforcements. When she turned back around, I was like, she was doing it for the queen. Where? Where are you going? I was like, if you don't hit that, you know, reverse and go back home. What are you doing? I was, I was, I was so, I was hurting that at the same time, they would have lost the castle. So she did the only thing she thought that was right. She did it for the queen. She was very loyal. The best. No, rainy's, rainy's is so fantastic. And I, I do like they gave her her moment. I think that her moment is more epic slash, um, I think it makes more sense, uh, what's it called? Blocking wise. I think the blocking makes more sense in the book because in the book, like, vaguar hits them from above. And so she's not like mostly away. She's already there. And so to me, that kind of makes a little bit more like logistical sense. Yeah. But I think that they achieved the emotional impact that they were looking for from us as an audience. And um, I really like want to chat about some of the questions that Michelle is like secretly populating into our documents. No, I saw them. I'm just like, you don't want to know my thoughts. I may do what I'm, I may do a Michelle and just, I want to, I want to know, yeah, yeah. Why don't we just go ahead and live into our fire section? No, I'm going to literally cut the line. I got my big question. Are you ready? Are you ready? We got to talk about Allison and her bitch ass tea. Listen, I am not a fan of Allison. I don't think I have ever really been a fan of Allison and the more that she continues to maneuver on screen, the more I will continue to not be a fan. Listen, people can say what they want to about motivations and ideologies. But when you are doing some of the exact same things that have built up your resentment for a character, right, or in this, in your world, like this person, right? You messy. That's messy. Also, you didn't even have the, the logistics to put the canister away. You ain't-- Where is all that? I was like, Larry saw that. The dude, he is sneakier than sneakers. Okay? Like he 100% saw that and it was like what that was. No, I am not here for, for her and Kristen's relationship. I believe that they are both just bitter, angry people, like, Reneira hurt my feelings. She hurt my feelings too. Let's get together. Okay. No. I don't, I don't stand for it and I, and I find it, I find it very ironic and very interesting that she was so quick to, I guess make a move on Reneira and be like, no, you're a bad for doing this thing that you are now going to turn around and do however many so I many years later. It's like, she's doing, she's doing too much and nothing at the same time and it's bothering. Right. She's doing too much. No, I agree. I agree. Lillie's making faces. Come on, Lillie. You know, what sums up at least and perfectly the end of episode three, where Reneira looks at her and she's like, you're a dumb-ass bitch, you're a dumb-ass bitch. You literally don't know a legend, a story. And then you just, you know, decide that, oh, it's about my son, so, you know, it's okay. I'm going to start to war over it. Who cares? Oh, shit. If you want to gauge a series's success ability, successfulness, words based on the meme count that comes out of it, season episode three, man, we got some good memes coming out of episode three. Yeah. Yeah. That really is like, you know, the phase that Reneira pulls in that scene, I was like, that's exactly how I look when I, when someone is dumb, I'm like, excuse me? Well, at this point, and she being so brash about it, the maester is going to know, Laris obviously knows now. Yeah, obviously. People are going to find out, I want, I don't know this, but I want Amund to find out. Yes. I just want it. I want it. Have that conversation. You deserve it. No. And at first, I was like, because obviously, Alison was with visitors because of like, you know, the whole like, you have to do this, my girl, and that's it, Don, no joy in sex or anything. And then I first looked at it, looked at this as like, you know, this is her time to innovate with someone. And it's like, you know, it in that sense, it made sense. It was a sentence for sure, but like, now I'm like, yeah, I've gone too far. But at this point, I'm like, go, no, what I find so fascinating is that there have been a couple of people who are team green and they're like, Renira was being messy. She was fornicating with a man who wasn't her husband and she was having babies. I'm like, okay. Okay. So put that same energy on Alison. Put that same energy on her, make it if you're, if you're, if you're going to hold somebody at a certain standard, you can't not just bypass that standard, be messy about it. You telling people, you asking questions, you asking treasonous questions to the grand maester? That's us. That is some sus activity. And I believe that finding, excuse me, the end of episode three with her and Renira having that conversation at the, I've been calling it the come to Jesus moment, the holy altar, we're all the honest, we're all the honesty had to come out, right? After that conversation, if anyone should have been moving with more meticulous, more dedication, more silence, it should have been her. And instead she's just like, got to, got to take some tea, got to go talk shit to my kid. I'm just like, you need to be a little more strategic man, especially because now you know, you know, you're wrong and you're still sending people to their death anyway. You're still going to ensue this war. You're still going to make sure your son's on the throne. So now you need to be smart about it. And hopefully we'll get more, um, you know, devious activities from her next episode. But now I'm just like a girl, recover and get your life together, take a, take a minute, take a minute. Yeah. Speaking of the parent, like the being me dear kids, like the way that she was just so exasperated that she had to comfort her son. She had to like put her glass down and be like, uh, why is your, what is your problem? Not. Allison, he's not a parent of the year award. Nope. But she didn't really have a good example because of Otto, but still no parent of the year award for Allison. What I did like was that, um, her not knowing the prophecy kind of underlines the usurper theme, like you don't know the bloodline, you don't know the prophecy, you don't know the, you know, the destiny for the house Targaryen. And I think that does kind of underline the, you don't belong here vibe because historically like, uh, Targaryens and old town have kind of been back and forth with each other for a minute. So I think that it kind of continues a theme, but you know, I think, I want to say that Aegon started it and Jaehaerys continued making peace between their two houses. Mm hmm. But, uh, it does add thematic relevance, which I think is also disappointing. And deep for her character because she married Viserys, who was obsessed with the history of Valyria and Targaryen history, and she didn't pay shit attention to it. That's it. Like, you know, if she would have paid attention to Viserys, like, this wouldn't have happened. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. No, they were her and her dad were too power hungry. Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. So we already touched on it just a tiny bit earlier, but what did everybody think of the growth or the maturation of Amund with Vagar? Well, I don't give two flying craps. He killed my girl. Boo. I don't solidarity. Solidarity. I'm, I'm standing at solidarity. I don't care how mature you got. I don't care that she finally listened to you. I don't care that you both had a wonderful interaction where you were able to command her. I don't care. You know what you should do? You should have commanded her back to Kingsland. And we should just know. Okay. That's my initial emotional reaction. Let's be rational now. It was great. I'm very happy that Amund and Vagar have worked out their relationship together. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I'm so genuine. Right. Take that. Take that from the soul. Take that. Post it. Note with your smiley face off. Right. Right. Mm hmm. I have thoughts. I'll let you guys go first before I rant. Go ahead and rant to be fair. All right. I'm curious now. Go ahead. Okay. So my interpretation of this episode is that Amund was aiming for Aegon like that's what I got from it. I'm not sure if that's like universal interpretation. Okay. 100%. And so because and I don't like Aegon, but he gets occasional bits of sympathy from me because you just got to be fair. Like I don't want to be completely team green, you know, hate train. I try to be fair. He was like, oh, my brother's here and then his brother torched him and I was like, oh, that's sad. That was because I am an older sibling. And so, but to me, in my opinion, Aegon might be older, but I think Amund in the head is the older sibling. And so like Aegon was having like little brother moment like he's here to help me unhelped. And then boom. And it made me that was that was sad in my opinion, but I like their uno reverse. And it's also they did it differently, but it does still kind of line up with the cannon because this is a little bit of a spoiler, but we are in the fire section. So we're mostly spoiler safe here. Amund names himself, protector of the realm and Aegon's place. So Caitlyn, like you're not far off. So I think it accomplished the same end in a different way because even if Rainies and Malie's Aegon and Sunfire were locked together and Amund did hit them from the top, he is his brother was still in the way. So regardless, I think his intentions were made pretty clear. And I was honestly just happy that we got to see him be the unpredictable, but smart, like he's unpredictable on the outside, but he's smart and he thinks things through on the inside. I was happy that we got this finally see that from his character because to me, these past couple episodes have been kind of watering his character down a little bit. And so I was just happy to actually see some fire and blood because he's half Targaryen and so he gets it. He gets the fire and blood. Yeah. No, I've enjoyed Amund so far this season. I've enjoyed the time that we spent with him and I'm happy that we are finally starting to see him do the thing, you know, like, I mean, I think, Liza, was it you who said that he was like, he's like wish.com Damon, but you say that in 100% wish.com Damon 100%. But I'm happy. I'm happy that we're starting to see like they're both, I don't know if this is actually what the show is trying to do, but my interpretation so far has been like, we're seeing them kind of going through their same, like a, like a, like a parallel is like, Damon is currently in a situation where he's in some messed up stuff. Aaron Hall is messing with his head and you've got Amund who's also dealing with the same repercussions and the bullying that he experienced as a child now from his brother who was clearly incapable and so it's nice to see them and how their troubles and their past are going to lead them to hopefully what will be like a big point of conflict. That's a really good observation about how both of their past are kind of playing tricks on them. I like that. I didn't really notice that right off the bat. Thank you. Yeah. I'm trying. I'm trying because I'm going to, I'm going to listen to what Lily is saying and I'm going to be and I'm going to apply that to my, I'm going to apply that to my heart. I'm going to watch the show for the show. I'm not going to hold on to what I hear or what I've, it's like snippet notes from the book. I'm destroying, I'm going to accept the show for what it is and I'm going to say like as the show, it is, it is, those parallels are working very well. I am enjoying that. I'm so glad on you honestly, like, you know, I feel hurt. Thank you. It's funny, Lily, because we, me and Caitlyn were actually chatting. We were like, you know, because I think Martin recently said, and I don't want to put words in his mouth. I think I saw it somewhere. So feel free to fact check me in the comments, everyone, but I think he said that there is book canon and then there is show canon. And so I am going to find it in my heart to make peace with that because otherwise it's just going to keep driving me away. Yeah. Look, for your own good at the end of the day, because it's your value to understand this and to be okay with this. But I think what is beautiful about adapting anything is that they can do their own way. And if they do it right, it can turn out so good and so enjoyable. And it, of course, it's going to be different from the book. But that's okay, too. Like, you know, if you learn to enjoy the book for what it is and what it can give you, and then you learn to enjoy what they make from it, whether it's a movie or a series, then you have two things to enjoy. And that's just the best thing ever, like they were brave enough to put their own spin on it. And I could find joy in that and viewed in that. And that's what I'm doing with House of the Dragon, because I truly enjoy it. I truly think that, at this point, I don't have, like, big, awful problems with it. There are things that I'm like, but it's so small that it's like... I think it's really similar to the Uncharted movie, right, that is the one with Tom Holland, where we had to... Somebody... Somebody go whole lives. I can't participate in this conversation. I can't. Well, but I just have to say what, you know, our good friend, Mr. Nolan North mentioned about it. When we were asking and asking questions about it, and he's like, you have to remove yourself from the game. They're doing their own thing. Exactly. And so you kind of have to appreciate and respect that. I still struggle with it. I'm not saying that I'm good at it, but if they're gonna do their own thing, then they're gonna do their own thing. Uncharted is one of my favourite games. It's here. St. Boris Magna. I have a text on my body. I have the ring in my neck because I fucking love it. And I was a bit afraid from the movie, but again, I think Nolan is right at the end of the day. I have to agree with him. I have the game, which I love, and I can go back to it whenever I want. And I appreciate it. Like, you know, Tom Holland is such a good actor. Yet to be fair, I enjoyed the film. I really did. I had fun with it. I wasn't. I don't even think I was alive when some of the first Witcher material was coming out. Maybe I was like, oh, baby. But when I figured it out and I started and I fell in love with it, you know, that's, I fell in love with the character and the decision that they make and the struggles that they go through and the journey that they take. And in my opinion, when you, when you change motives, even slightly, right? Like I can understand the idea about maybe adding something where in the book, it may be happened in like one page, but on a TV show, you need to add things so it makes sense for the characters to be there. I get that part. But when you change motives, when you add in or take away from people's character arcs, that's when I start looking at you like, are you actually trying to adapt the Witcher? Are you adapting the Maze Runner? Are you adapting Game of Thrones? Are you making something with the same material that you want yourself? And I feel like that you can just be upfront, just be like, if you love the books, you may not like this, but I would encourage you to at least try. That's different than being like, yep, this is, you read it, you're going to love it. It's different. That's, but that's the best, you know, that like, I'm not saying that everything is going to be good. Like just to make this clear, like I'm not saying that like, but if you keep an open mind and can separate the two things, I think you have an easier time to find more enjoyable things in the adaptation than if you're like, no, because in the book it was like, yeah, I mean, still, of course they can fuck off things. Most of the time they fuck off things, let's be fair, but from time to time, beauty can be fine. And in the spirit of like kind of comparing books and show, I think we're going to go ahead and jump into like a miniature canon correction. I will not rant this time and our dragon dreams before we wrap it all up, so let's go. Okay, so as briefly as possible, if you do want to know what really happens with Rainies and Mayleys, I think we discuss it in our Decoding Dragons season two, episode two. So that would be where you find her absolutely badass moment she has in the books. It's amazing. And in my opinion, including our conversation today, I do think the book version of this is better because I think Rainies has a better moment. But if you want to know what happens, that's where you find it. And what am I trying to say? I have one singular gripe. One gripe and it's a Damon gripe because that's kind of where I've been this whole time I've been griping about Damon's representation the whole time. I do not. I do not think he would have drank in the thing he called her a witch to her face. He didn't. He's not going to love the tea. The tea. The tea. Let's be honest. Tea was the thing in this episode like everybody drinking tea got in trouble. I know. I don't think he would have drank it. That's all I'm saying. I don't think he would have drank the tea. He's British. What? What are you talking about? He's a British. We're agreeing with you. That's why he's dumb. If the guy was eating the peas in front of him and he wasn't eating the peas, then why would he then be so eager to just be like, "Oh, well, I mean, I saw you eat it, so it must be fine." Her room looks so suspicious and I'm just like, "Just because she put it in her mouth, don't not mean you put it in yours, that is not a melisandre drink poison." Yes. Melisandre drank poison in someone's face and lived and the person died. And Alice can also see visions of the flames. So I'm just saying, "Don't drink nothing she drink." That's all I'm saying? But no, Damon is so different and I see where Lily is coming from, but I am a book stickler. That's where I will draw my line and Damon is so different than he was in the books. If I didn't know the book, I wouldn't know it was the same character. So I'm just going to... That's my opinion? I mean, technically we are halfway through too, so there's only eight episodes this season. Yeah. So I'm just like, "Okay, there's a future spoiler thing, they really have to get right in my opinion to do right by his character, but it's way too far of a spoiler." So I think I'm just going to acknowledge this is not the Damon that we came to know and let it go, but we do have next episode of Predictions. And we are moving up for the dragonsies because once what happens to Malie's happens, they look for more dragon riders. So at some point, we will be getting our dragonsies. Still no idea where Nettles is, did not see her, wished I want to see her, but she's not there. I don't know. I'm afraid that they're doing what you predicted last episode, that they're giving her storyline to Bayla or Reyna. See, I too am concerned about that. And I cut, for reference, I cut a lot of that out, but I was concerned that they were going to change Nettles into Bayla, but use the platonic storyline that's produced. Like the father-daughter, nothing such as happening here, no side-eye necessary plot line. I hope they do not because I do think that Nettles needs to be a separate character because stuff. And mostly the next episode should be Aftermath for Team Green. We kind of see what's up with Aegon. Amund will hopefully name himself, Protector of the Realm. And I do think as a commander-leader person in the show, I think that Amund is more capable. So hopefully we'll see some more moves from Team Green. I want to see Daren and the people down there by Old Town. I want to see Daren, but we still haven't seen Daren. And Reneera and Corley's have a huge falling-out because of Reneera's sending Rainies and what happened. And then we'll hopefully move into I think what's known as the Red Sewing, which is where, you know, Ulf and Hugh Hammer and hopefully Nettles and Adam all get their dragons. So yes, that's hopefully what shall happen. And I've had a fantastic time chatting with you all today. I feel like we really got to like get stuff off our chest. So true. And thank you all for sharing your opinions. Kaitlyn and Lily, thank you as always for returning for this episode. We are so, so happy to have you join us. Can you remind us where everybody can follow you if they want to hear more of your fantastic content? Go ahead, Lily. Oh, oh, to me. Okay. I don't know. Well, I have a website. It's Artofrulike.com. Please, by myself, I'm poor. And I swear they are good. They are all behind me or almost all of them. So I like, you know, phenomenal. Yeah. Thank you. Maybe her Damon prints up for sale and you can get a print of that. No, she said Damon ain't going nowhere. You can have everything but Damon. Oh, right. The digital print, I guess. Right. Yeah. The digital you can get. That's fine. But anyway, I have that. You can find me as Artofrulike or the Artofrulike everywhere on all social media. I'm doing it for you. Don't forget that. It's like draining my soul. No, social media is difficult. I am right there with you. It's so difficult, but I can't do it. Just through. Yeah. Yeah. And then if you want to read how nerdy I get about things, you can do it on count super as well. Right, as well, and you can read my book that Liza mentioned. It's called The Soul Less and you can get it on every Amazon platform. Yeah. It has dragons as well. Dragons. Yes. All right. Kayla. And if you are interested, I too make art. I'm more of an abstract artist painter. So if you are interested, it is the abstract Voyager.com and you can also find me on social media, the abstract Voyager or the underscore abstract Voyager where you're going to hear me talk about all kinds of really cool TV shows and movies like King Kong and Supercell and all those really cool shows that are coming out right now. And yeah, I'm also a sensitivity reader. So if you are an author or if you're someone who is interested or looking for someone to make you author merch, I offer author, I offer author services. So that's where you can check me out too. Awesome. Yes. Thank you so much. She's fantastic, by the way. She alpha read my current manuscript, crisp, amazing feedback. She has literally saved my life on so many occasions. You can call me the plot hole finder. Yes. She's fantastic. I literally walked up to her yesterday. I was like, I made a mistake with armor. How do I fix it? She helped me fix it. We will be back every week on couchsuit.com during season two to recap the latest episode of House of Dragon. I came in the merch. She's writing right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Be sure to hit that like button, ring that bell. Let us know in the comments what other lore you'd like us to dive into next. Also, if anybody would like to be a guest, we obviously have guests if you would like to join us and thank you everybody for being here. Thank you, Caitlin. Thank you, Lily. It was wonderful. Thank you for having us. We appreciate you all so much. And thank you so much for being so dedicated and doing this every single week. It is fun to watch. It's always, it's also fun to be a part of, so thank you all so much for having us here. And Lily, it was awesome meeting you too, by the way. Super awesome meeting. Yeah, it's so awesome to be here as well. And we will see you next week with all the fire and soup. Are you ready to go down the rabbit hole? The All Things Alice podcast will explore the cultural phenomena of Alice in Wonderland. Frank Bador, the author of the Looking Glass Wars trilogy, is your host through a wonder verse of interviews from all types of creators as they chronicle the dark yet empowering reality of Lewis Carroll's fantasies and answer the question, what is it about Alice that captivates us still today? The All Things Alice podcast, available wherever you listen to podcasts. (bell chimes)
Rook's Rest finally happened, and Liza and Michelle are joined by Kaelin and Lily to talk about Rhaenys and Aemond's big moments. We've got all perspectives here talking bad blood, dragon babies, and the battle we've been waiting for in our breakdown of "The Red Dragon and the Gold." There are reactions, salt, and tea galore as we dive into the lore that leads up to this big mid-season moment, discuss shows remaining faithful to their source material, and prep for what's to come. Don’t miss out as, every week, we spill the "royal-tea" and break down the fire in each episode of Decoding Dragons, a show and podcast all about the epic lore fueling House of the Dragon.
