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Daily articles from fans, not pundits, weekly podcasts that contain a multiverse of opinions on All Things pop culture, exclusive videos and weekly live streams where we laugh, scream and sometimes have technical difficulties, all created by folks like you, the gamers, the film nerds, the TV, bingers, comic book lovers, bookworms and pop culture enthusiasts all in one giant bowl of beautiful disgusting soupy goodness at couchsoup.com Hey everyone, welcome back to Decoding Dragons, couch suits watching now podcast, where we break down all things house the dragon, where your hosts lie to the Michelle, spilling the royalty and breaking down the fire for every episode. And when there's just steam or small little smolders, we break that down too. Small smolders or lots of salt? So much salt. Yeah, so I have read the Song of Ice and Fire series and binged the original Game of Thrones series and Liza has seen the show and also red fire and blood. So when it comes to thrones and dragon lore, we got you covered. Side note, if you're here and you don't like any spoilers at all, we talk about the canon. So you are very likely going to come across some sort of spoiler throughout the entire of the episode. We try to save the major ones for our dragon dream section at the end, but if you don't want to know anything at all, just, you know, I guess come back later and check us out. But if you like us like know all the tea, we got you covered. So let's go ahead and break down what happened in season two, episode three called the burning mill. And I know, I know, I know it kills you that it's called the burning mill. Let's get into it. First of all, I didn't know the name of the episode title until I made our show notes, right? And when I saw they named it, they named this episode the burning mill. I had a mini, I sort of kind of lost it for like two seconds because they, the burning mill is a fairly important thing that happens between house blackwood and house bracken. And we didn't see any of it like we didn't get on the ground for any of it. We just it literally opens with people that we don't know yelling at each other and calling to their names. And then two seconds later, there's just a field of bodies and we didn't see anything. So like we don't understand what happened. Well, that's the thing, right? They didn't even break down the family names. They didn't even get into who it was. You would have, you would actually have to go into watching a show like this or really digging deep into the lore to understand why that was even a thing. Exactly. And, you know, house bracken and blackwood, blackwood specifically has very important characters that they did not even introduce. And like, I don't want to, you know, jump the gun because I don't 100% remember if bloody Ben Blackwood is already on the scene for the burning mill. I really think that he's getting pretty close because he may be stepping in for the people who died in this battle. Like I don't want to like say stuff randomly, but Ben is getting close and they didn't even mention him like at all. And he's very important and black alley is very important. Um, Alice and blackwood, they are related and like they are so important, the story. And so we just like ghost over the whole battle of the burning mill to basically watch nothing for an hour. And I have thoughts and I think this time, Michelle, I think we're on the same page about this episode. Yeah, we are because last episode we weren't and I enjoyed it. But this episode was just kind of like, can we, I'm going to, I'm going to take your statement that you said before we got on camera and it's like, how do they make Game of Thrones boring? I'm so disappointed. I know. How do you take a book that is literally literally called fire and blood and make it boring? I was so bored and I don't think I have ever been bored in Game of Thrones ever, ever, but we definitely, we have so much talk about before we like rant about all the salt that we are feeling at this moment for the way this plot is going, which is in my opinion, like in my humble opinion. I don't think this is technically book accurate because of the way that they're changing stuff. Yeah. Yeah. This is not, this is not even remotely the vibe that I have ever gotten from the dance of dragons, but we did see back to our like brief important people got mentioned section. We saw more of off the white who randomly info dumped his Targaryen heritage in the middle of King's Landing and just decided to say that Reneera was the one true queen inside enemy territory to a bunch of possible strangers and almost got walked in on by Aegon. That's beside the point. We also meet. I'm going to interrupt you there and say that's another thing that like in Game of Thrones history of the series of the shows of television history, sorry. That's the type of reveal that you would typically wait a couple episodes. You would kind of hint it here and hint it there and they would have more important conversations than just saying, "Oh, hey, my name's Ulf," or "Oh, hey, this is this guy." You would kind of weave that intricately into the storyline, so it would be kind of a reveal. Obviously, not like a John Snow, Targaryen alert, but like you would weave it a little bit easier instead of just, "Here's a scene of this guy, here's a scene of this guy." And then, "Hey, look, I'm a dragon seed." Well, some of the people who didn't read the book or know the series, they don't even know what a dragon seed means. What does that mean? And he name drops Balen and like they just make it so like it's not subtle, it's there's no subtext. He just name drops everybody and you're just supposed to, first of all, like if I was just watching the show and I didn't know he was a dragon seed, I wouldn't have believed him because that sounds like he's like boasting about something. Yes, and I feel like that's a part of the problem this season, right, is there's a lot of really important characters and of course, we don't know how they're trying to establish everything for multiple seasons because they are already approved for season three. So we're not really sure how or what they're gonna do with that, but I do feel like they're making it a little too long. They're stretching it a little too thin because now we're getting these episodes that are just like, "Well, how do I know that that's important?" Yeah, why isn't there more tension when it comes to a scenario like this or anything like that? You know, and that's exactly like me and my family watch it together and that's exactly what, you know, we were saying we're like, "If you need this much filler, you didn't have to have that many seasons because you do need the dragon seeds." But in my, like you don't need this for the dragon seeds, like we could have met them when the dragon seeds thing happened because they send out this call for like, "If you have Targaryen blood, come try and ride a dragon." And if you do, you're on our team, congratulations, basically that's what happens. And we could have met them there because I can't, this is way too far in the future with me to spoil right now, but based on some of the stuff that happens with Hugh Hammer and All the White, they need to be very careful how they set their intentions now. Like, you need to be very, very careful because like stuff happens later and it's important to know if I liked it better not knowing where they started because they just kind of show up when the dragon seeds start, right? We don't get backstory on them. At all. At all. So they just, they're just like, boom, and they do what they do. And then you're just kind of left wondering why, right? And I prefer, I like to wonder why actually, most of them I like answers, but sometimes I like to wonder why. But you don't always need them. There's a point, there's a purpose that of behind his writing, right, of like being mysterious. Like, is it this? Is it that? Well, again, these types of shows so we can get into it, we can speculate and we can dive into the lore and try to figure it out ourselves and that's some of the excitement. But if they're just going to throw them in there without any type of background, it's just kind of like, okay, well, like, that's less exciting, we have less to talk about. Right. And you don't build a Roman Empire by answering questions. Correct. Exactly. We will talk about it. Thank you, you know, you don't build one by answering questions and also like side note, like you, first of all, you want people to talk about the show and you have to give them theories. But now you're just like laying it out for us, but we're down a dragon seed, by the way. So those of you who are watching who have read fire and blood, y'all know who I'm talking about. We are missing a dragon seed. We have Adam, we have Hugh and we have off, but we are missing nettles and I don't know where she is. That's perfect. So we'll just get into nettles a little bit later. So going back to people who are important that we saw today, up yesterday, Elise Rivers. Can you kind of get into who she is? Okay. So I have so many thoughts. Well, hold on. Is it Elise or Alice? Let's make sure I'm saying that right. You know, I actually, I don't know. I call her Alice, but your sounds prettier. Yes. Okay. So I'm going to tell you what I know. And I'm going to tell you my personal headcanon. It is an unconfirmed headcanon. It's just a random lie, the thought. So what I do know about Alice Rivers is I think she is a baseborn, like bastard born nurse, like wet nurse in Harenhall, who is older than she looks. And so different people think different things about her, but some people think she was like a woods witch something and then some people say she had visions in the flames, kind of like Melisandre does, which is going to like the visions and the flames is going to kind of explain what Damon was experiencing. But her and Damon have a run-in I think when he takes Harenhall, I don't know quite what goes down. So I can't say whether or not, you know, like what happened is what happened. But, um, Damon and Alice have a whole thing like when Damon takes Harenhall after Damon. So Alice is sticking around for a while. She is an important character. She creeps me out. Right. Well, yeah, I can say that they did do that type of little foreshadowing there with the look that Damon gave her when she walked in. Right. You could kind of see that. Oh. And so we're now I'm kind of intrigued by that. So that was one good scene that we had this episode back to my headcanon. This is completely unconfirmed. I have absolutely no proof that this is real. I think Alice Rivers is Melisandre from a long, long time ago. I have no proof. I have nothing to go off of. It's just my own little personal headcanon that I just carry around with me. I mean, that would be really cool, actually. I would kind of appreciate that little nod if they did that through that out there. I was secretly really hoping that they would cast Melisandre's actress. I was really hoping that they would cast her and like confirm my theory, but maybe it would have been too on the nose, but she is reportedly able to see visions and the flames. I don't want to say the name wrong, but I think the visions and the flames come from a deity in Game of Thrones called Rauler. And if I'm saying it right, but we see ninjas of him later in like Game of Thrones, Game of Thrones with Beric Dondarian, Thoros of Mira Melisandre, et cetera. So that's my headcanon. I think Alice Rivers is Melisandre, but she is to appreciate that. What does that mean? But she is who first of all, she creeps me out, but she's who I was talking about when I was like these scenes, they're giving us of Amund that the brothel aren't needed because the psychological implications are taken care of when he gets to Harenhaal because she is much older than him. She doesn't look at really, but she is much older than him and they do have like a thing. So like what they're trying to do to Amund would have been taken care of if they just let it ride through the story. I think she's just like why, so that's something that I get into because I'm a massive Harry Potter fan. Okay. And so when we got into the movies, right, there were little things that they started changing or adjusting and I've always been under the impression of like why you have the source material, but why, like what is the point in changing that stuff? I completely agree with you. I am an author and so it like super irks me when stuff gets changed that has like repercussions through the story that the author thought about, but you're going to change it for the screen. Yeah. And even even little things like that, like the the collar of a tent doesn't really have any effect on the story. But if the author goes through that many much detail to go through and set the scene the way that that should be set and obviously that's kind of the problem with people who make movies out of books is instead of having an audience that has multiple ways of viewing the way you write, you know, people read and interpret differently. We are now viewing one person's interpretation of the written word. What's unfortunate is I do feel like they're trying to ride the Game of Thrones wave a little too hard right now. So the people or the butts are in the seats because it's Game of Thrones. Let's get into Game of Thrones. It's like what you mentioned last episode where you're missing Cersei, you're missing Daenerys. You're missing the bloodshed and the cunning and the politics, but instead we're getting these very powerful, should be powerful females going, yeah, I'm good. This is, this is not Reneera and this is not Allison, this is not Damon, this is not any of them. Yeah, Damon basically got in a fight with his wife, which is what like Ryan Condell said at the end of the episode, something's going to steal his line. Okay. He basically got in a fight with his wife jumped in the car and left because he's mad. So he like jumped on Caraxes and went to Harenhall, but he was already here. Right. So frustrating. Okay. So I have plenty of rants just like stored up about this for, um, since I already broke down Rooks rest last episode because I had no idea they were going to just pump it full of filler for this whole episode. I have plenty of rants to save, especially for, you know, what we expect next time. And my little cannon correction section, which apparently is here to stay because I didn't realize they were going to go this crazy with a creative liberties, but let's go ahead and like just hold on to our salt and jump into the blood section and because I got questions for you, let's go. Okay. So I worked so hard to find good things to ask you about this episode. So my first question is how was it seeing Harenhall again so long after the great council where we first saw it? Yeah. So it's nice to see Harenhall is strategically located. It's really important in this season because of that, it's really good. It's large enough to hold a lot of men. It's not as dilapidated right yet as we see it in where Aria is, you know, time in Lannister's cupbearer in the original game series in season two, but it's still getting a little dilapidated because Lairs strong decided to set it on fire and kill his kin last season. But I really appreciated the little cinematography, the little tour that we got of Damon in it because he was expecting a battle. He was expecting a lot more. So as we were following him through the castle, we could follow where he was and follow along with it, see it kind of a tour of the castle. So I always appreciate the little nuggets that they throw in there of tapestries or banners and anything like that. You can always pause and kick pick something up the Easter eggs are always really big and scenes like that. And I appreciated him walking in on the meal, right? And the guy's like, or Damon says, Hey, I'm here to take Harenhall and the guy's just like, all right, let's do it. Yeah, no, in the book, it kind of falls pretty easy too, because like I said, who's going to stare caraxes in the face and be like, yeah, for a castle. Yeah. But I pictured it once again, I pictured differently in my head. But I did like the one moment where Damon is walking through Harenhall and he comes across like the Great Hall, I suppose. And like it kind of makes you wonder like how many memories of his brother that brings up because you know, he was there like he might not have been up there with him, but he was there. He's trying to make sure, you know, wonder how much he thought about his brother, et cetera. And I'm assuming that they were trying to pull on that thread and like later during the dinner conversation where he was like, you're going to call me king. I love the opinion that a queen's husband should be called a king because a king's husband is called a queen. Like you don't call her a princess, but she's queen concert. So he should be king concert. He should be king concert. So like they reacted to that so funny and I'm just like, first of all, there's not a single thing in fire and blood that I can think of that ever made me think that Damon actually wanted to be king after it got down to Reneera being queen. Like now there's not a single thing. So this whole like Damon still wants to throw him thing is lost on me because I am completely annoyed with where they're taking his character because it's not accurate. But seeing him kind of walk through and see the Great Council was neat. It kind of added like a little horror element. I personally think they could have given him something cooler to do because he's a cool character, but seeing the Great Council room was neat. Speaking of I suppose stuff that's not accurate and confusing is all get out. What were your thoughts? I've been here in Allison's meeting this bitch just like walks into the gates. She's just up as a septa. Obviously we know social media isn't a thing clearly, right? Then me, nobody's going to recognize her. There aren't pictures or portraits necessarily as long as her hair is covered. That's okay. This woman just walks straight into the gates into the septa balor. Well, actually I'm sorry. That's not the septa balor at this point, but it's into the septa as a septa. And my favorite part of that scene was Allison's recognition that that was Reneera because it wasn't instant. She looked at her and because they haven't seen each other in a long time, the Olivia Cook actually had a really good skill of acting when she was kind of like, oh, hey, oh, and she just kind of was like, whoa. And the conversation was, fell a little dull to me, actually. It was still a little dull. They did clear up the fact that this is all pointless at this point. The Reneera's face to Allison was just like, really bit too crazy. And then Allison's like, shit, I really messed up. She ends. You could just see her realize how terribly she fucked up. And then at the end of that, she looks Reneera in the face, it's like, I ain't no backing down now. We're going for it. But that was so out, like to me, first of all, she's already out of character, in my opinion, like based on book Allison, show Allison is not the same. But for show Allison, that was so out of character, like she has been looking for a reason to quit this this entire time. And now that you have the opportunity, because now you realize that this there is, did want Reneera to be clean, you're still not going to back down. My husband made a really good point about that saying, well, there's nothing that can be done now. And it was less of Allison being gung ho for war, and more of Allison realizing that she has less power in the small council, because people are starting to respect her a little bit less, and Aegon and Amund are starting to come up into their let's be fierce men fears if you're looking at Aegon, because let me just for a second, Allison's look when Aegon was like, I can go to war and be scary. And she's like, yes, dear, yes, honey, it's just on the head. We all saw what Aegon was up to in season one, like you now really want me to have like to treat you want to treat him like a puppy dog now after we saw what he was doing to kids and women in season one, like, no, you want to like treat him like a child? No, thank you. I'm sorry. He already is dangerous and dislikable, in my opinion, and they're trying to make him all cute and like pathetic and incapable, and you're just like, he's horrible. We're going to pretend like he's not, but okay, like we all saw we all saw season one, right? We all knew what all that was about. Right. So, okay, my husband had the interpretation that that was more of like, I can't stop what's happening. The wheels are in motion, essentially. So I thought that was an interesting way to interpret that because at that point of the episode, I was just like zoned out. Yeah. Like what? You don't, so you want to end it, but you don't want to end it like, that's just, that's just in the episode. Right. If y'all don't want to end the war, we're just going to end the episode. Let's be dealing with this, this petty going back and forth, right? It's like, just make a decision. So no, thank you for including that, that will add some like, subtext. My next pettiness, and I'm going to say this as PG and positive as I possibly can, they do not have to keep doing aim and like this. And I'm upset. Like they, they should not be treating his character like this because if the, I can't, this is not in regards to the scene that was on TV. But Ammon does have balls, okay? He's not a unique, at least not in the book. I'm talking about his personality. I'm talking about his personality. Ammon has no problem stepping up when necessary in the book, in the book, to my knowledge, Vegar and Airax are not an accident. They keep nerfing him in video game perbs. They are nerfing, and I don't even like him and I don't like that they're doing that. Meanwhile, he's just sitting at like, so all council meetings are going to his room and like, twiddling his little frickin brothel coin. You don't have anything better to do. They're not going to let you just plan something or like, I don't know, maybe get on Vegar and be intimidating. Right. Make it. He is scary. He is a scary character. He and Damon are juxtaposed against each other for a reason, and they are nerfing him so hard for no reason. There is no reason that you are sitting here trying to make Ammon less intimidating. His intimidating scare, don't know what to expect next factor, adds to the story and the suspense and the stuff that's coming later that I can't talk about. But they're losing it and speaking of those same thing that you're saying is like, they're not only are they nerfing his character, but they're nerfing the tension between Ammon and Damon. They're nerfing the entire storyline that made them both that intriguing about Team Black, Team Green. There's this. There's that. But instead, like we were saying a second ago or a while ago, it's like doughy-eyed Allysant and it's like, Reneer is kind of like treading lightly and stepping back and Allysant's like, oh, no, there is none of the Team Black, Team Green. That's dough. So in the small council at like Reneer and Dragonstone or Reneer's small council and they're like, well, the Greens will do this and the Greens will do that. It actually reminded me that there are factions. I completely forgot that there was like Team Black and Team Green. I know. It's like we're in this like puddle of something. I can't use, I don't want to use all this profanity in the show that really not everybody likes it, but it's just this puddle of no agency and the people who have agency, once again, I'm looking at Damon and kind of sort of auto like I'm looking at the guys. They keep blaming for these missteps that are actually doing like you are at war and you're blaming everyone who's acting like you're at war, like they're at like they're doing what they're supposed to do and everyone is upset about it. And I'm like, he's your king consort. They are your council. He's your father, like they're doing what they're supposed to, auto whatever, auto is not a good dad. I'm putting that out there right now. I mean, but in their respect court, they are doing what they're supposed to do and everyone is upset and trying to act like they're pushy. And meanwhile, the show is somehow purposefully chipping at our respect for these characters like it's not going to affect the way they go at it later. And I'm just like, we want the viciousness. We want to respect the character. We want to at least be able to appreciate the characters on the screen. Like we need to do we need the payoff that the entire watching a show where we're waiting for the payoff of these and of this tension and of these characters and everything that they're trying to build up that they have just repressed. I know. It's like they're dumping water on a fire and trying to sell us the burning colds. What a good fun because listen, we're talking about dragons, my girl. Actually, I'm going to pause us and say, let's go ahead and get into the blood because I have questions for you. Fire and yes, same thing. Let's go. Now that we're in the fire, I want you to see this because a picture paints a thousand words, right? And this is like this one picture is the reason that I interpreted fire and blood the way that I did. So you're about to see Reneera on one side and Alice and Tom the other. And you tell me if this looks like the characters that we got in this season, girl, no. Look at the viciousness. Look at the side eye. Look at the side eye. Tell me those women are not women who would send assassins for each other's children. 100%. And that's why every time they try to play the doe eyed innocent, I'm like, no, no, like y'all have been at each other's throats. And I want them at each other's throat. Right. It's the point. It's the whole point. If you remove the grit from the dance, the dragons, you have a family squabble we could have watched on any other genre in any other, any other genre any other TV show at its core, you know, it's family in fighting, but like in the bigger picture, you're fighting for your inheritance as a Targaryen to be the Prince slash princess that is promised, etc. Or you're fighting to, you know, fighting against the long night later, you need to be in place to make sure that doesn't happen. When you take away the grit and the importance of what they're fighting for, what their bloodline is for and does, you take away so much of why we watch the show. We're not watching it to watch these women apologize to each other, we're watching the Daenerys fucking Target. Thank you. And John Snow, like we're watching it because of them. Like they didn't get to where they were because these bitches were saying sorry to each other from like one Raven to another, right? Like John Snow and Daenerys Targaryen did not happen because people lacked agency like these people were doing things that put them there. So based on the conversation, we had a second and go about like auto high tower, right? So no, he's not a good dad. He was a decent hand. Obviously, he was a hand to multiple kings, but I really enjoyed the Rainies and Rainier conversation at the very beginning of the episode because you can tell that the older generation of folks in this dance are kind of just getting tired and nobody's respecting their opinions. So what did you think of Rainies insight in both the conversation with Rainier, but also whenever she told Rainier as a small council to sit their ass down and respect their queen? I am happy that Rainier has Rainies because Rainies does have experience and she does have flight longevity and she knows how stuff works more. So I am happy that she's there. I think they're kind of playing Rainies is bitter still and I think there's still a lot of blame and I would have done it better if I would have could have showed it if I had type stuff, but I am happy that Rainier has someone who has a firmer hand because the way that Emma Darcy is depicting her at small council meeting, she's very fidgety. Rainier is very fidgety. She's very uncomfortable and that really doesn't portray someone who can make who can call the shots, who can like make the tough decisions, but Rainies is cool. She doesn't fidget she is just like on it and I deserve. She's observant. Sorry. I interrupted you. No, you're fine. You're fine. She is observant and I am happy that she's on Rainier's team for sure. She's observant, but she's also vocal about it. Like I said, when I was asking you the question, like I was happy that she was basically like sit your ass down old men and respect your queen because they're trying to get Rainier at a kind of go into the shadows and I did some research for the episode and I learned that apparently, and you can correct me when I get this wrong, that during the dance the dragons in fire and blood, Rainier was actually kind of in the shadows because she was still recovering from the miscarriage for such a long time. So they're even moving her character a little bit to be more involved than she actually was. For a portion of it, yes, she was still recovering from, you know, childbearing, et cetera, because it's a hard on her. And so no, that's true. Like she was not at the forefront and Damon did run the show. And that's why I'm like, but it didn't really seem like anybody had a problem with Damon running the show in the book because somebody had to, like. So I probably have an unpopular opinion. I think her counsel, they are currently from what I understand, they are advocating for her to make decisions. I don't think she has made any decisions that move the war forward on the show. And they, like I keep saying like, they are at war and you're going to have to. So I probably have an unpopular opinion, but I have no problem with her counsel because she's not making any decisions and they are advocating that she do. And an attempt was made on her life. So she probably should be somewhere safe, but she doesn't want to be and that's okay. But if you're going to be there, you need to provide something. That's my opinion. Yeah. No, I agree with you completely. And that actually leads me into a question about with the attempt on her life. We see her send Vayla away, right? To protect her legacy and protect her family and also for Vayla to basically be a surrogate, right? Raina. Yeah. I'm sorry, Raina. Yeah, you're correct. But, so when Raina was being sent away and we see she's going to get some dragons, she's going to have some influence for Lady Jane Aaron and also when she gets to Pinto's, but we saw these dragon eggs that are going to Pinto. So now everyone is saying, Oh, that must be Drogon and Viserion and regal. But it's not. Can you clear that up? Okay. Okay, I'm going to get on my, I'm going to begin my speech now. Later on in Fire and Blood, there's a kid named Raina who is jahari's is like the first jahari's is older sister. Her name is Raina and she has a lover whose name is Alyssa and they have like a disagreement and Alyssa leaves, but she takes three dragon eggs with her on her voyage and that I'm pretty sure is kind of understood to be how Danny's three dragon eggs get to Danny, like 200 years later. So that was an aspect I was going to touch on. If you didn't touch on that about June fire and drove on looking very similar. But the other aspect, there's something else that I'd like to add is just because Daenerys got them in Pinto's, they actually weren't necessarily in Pinto's to begin with. You mentioned is like 200 years ago, right, when these got stolen. So they actually, I don't want to use the, you use the term fossilized, but they were essentially fossilized over in a shy, which is where Melisandre came from. So they, the gentleman who had Daenerys and Viserys, what was his name? I know his. Alireo. Alireo, thank you. Right. Yes. And the gentleman in Alireo and Pinto's, which is where Daenerys and Viserys, where we first meet them. Alireo is who they are with. He bought them off somebody, not in Pinto's, then they got shipped over to him. So just because they're going to Pinto's with Reina and these dragon eggs, that doesn't necessarily mean those are automatically Daenerys's. If they're trying to make that show canon, like you're saying, okay, but that's not the written word that we're aware of. Right. And I also have a note about Reina, like to my knowledge also, she's not supposed to go to Pinto's. So yeah, like she's supposed to go to the Vale because once again, it's a spoiler and it's probably going to happen either later in this season or next. So I can't like really say it in this episode, but there's stuff that happens. They did mention that though, because Renira said we're giving you these dragons to make sure that Lady Jane Erin feels secure in our relationship and our working relationship and our agreement. And so I know they're going to at least like go hit stop at the Vale on their way to Pinto's potentially. Yeah, no, no, you're right. I am. And they are going to be going to the Vale, but Reina is supposed to stay in the Vale. Okay. And little Viserys and Little Egg on the third are supposed to be the ones who sail because there's a thing that happens that I think I would remember if Reina had also been in that situation, so I was supposed to be staying in the Vale and then Reina is going to be taking Damon and Renira's children over to Pinto's. In the book, I don't remember where Joffrey goes. I know that he's with Renira when it all kind of concludes in King's Landing, but I know that Reina is supposed to go to the Vale and Little Viserys and Little Egg on the third are supposed to be the ones who kind of go overseas because there's a thing that happens. But I think I really think I would remember if Reina had also been the situation and the boys and nothing. So that's all I can say until we get closer because that's just too much of a spoiler. It's not fair to me to leave it here. My final question for you is actually regarding King's Landing is about Lara Strong, right? So he's obviously a meddlesome fool. He's pulling some of the strings. He's kind of a little finger. But do you think he may have a little hint of hair for Aegon because he did try to keep him from going? He may have good intentions even if he lied about why he shouldn't go. I do not know what Larris wants. And that's why I miss Larris because Larris was like, "I want what's good for the realm." Little finger wanted what was good for himself, you know? I don't think Larris is a fool. I do think he's very smart. But I don't think it's Aegon he was trying to save. I think he was looking out for their cause. I think he was being honest. If you want him to go and die, he can go and die, but he probably shouldn't because we want to have a side to be on, right? When he tried to walk in. So I do think he's smart. I don't know who. Honestly, and this is sad to say because this is the only smidgen of empathy he's ever going to get for me, but I don't think anybody really cares about Aegon on his side. I don't think his mom does, his dad's not there, his brother is Amund and who may care about him a little bit, but you know, it's Amund and I don't think anybody cares about Aegon. I think Larris was just looking out for their side. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. He's kind of making it. I think that's probably a poor choice. So let's go ahead. We've gotten a lot of salt out of our system. Let's go ahead and dive into the dragon dreams. Okay. I'm probably also going to sneak in some cannon corrections because I am just full of salt right now. This show is on my nerves, so on we go. We're also going to go ahead and do our spoiler warning because this is the dragon dream section and the cannon correction. So this is where we're really going to dive deep into the lore. If you don't want to know what happens in the future. If you want to stay surprised slash bored when you're watching, then come back and thank you for being here. But here's from now forward, we're going to dive into major spoilers, major spoilers. So first things first in like the cannons correct in the cannon correction section is probably Helena because they made like a marked deviation from the cannon. So we're going to put it like a content warning here. We're going to talk about blood and cheese some more. So if that makes you uncomfortable, you've heard about it enough and don't want to hear about it anymore, please feel free to come back next episode and we will see you in for anybody who has stayed. So in the books, Helena chooses the youngest son, I think Maylore to die, but they kill her oldest son, Jhaere's in front of her and she has to live with Maylore, who is a child that, you know, she chose to die. And that takes a huge, huge toll on her and has a negative impact on her mental health. So Helena's character kind of recedes into herself. She suffers with what I would consider depression. She won't leave her chambers and they have to take custody is not the right word. But people have to step in to help take care of her children because of how distraught she is. So in the books, that's kind of where she's at, like she won't leave her chambers. Alison, I think, steps in to help take care of her children or child Maylore maybe just specifically. And that kind of direction, her character goes leads to what happens with her character later on, which is subject of debate. But that's again too far of a future spoiler. So when she came on screen and she was like, well, I think smallfoot was their children more than me. I probably shouldn't be sad about it. I was surprised that that was where they went with that emotional trajectory and reaction to what happened. And I'm not a psychologist, so I can only go based on life experience and what I read in the book. So I'll just leave it at the fact that I was surprised the emotional direction that they had willing to take as someone who feels things so deeply. So I wouldn't mind to add something there if you don't mind. I've never suffered a loss like Helena just suffered. I did however suffer through postpartum depression and anxiety after having both of my boys. And I'm not sure if this is the case, obviously. But I'm curious if we're not going to have another conversation between Helena and Alison of her kind of changing her tune, because to me, I kind of, I interpreted that scene as Helena going, okay, if this happened, I don't think she's over her grief. I think she's trying to talk her way through it. And I think her justification of trying to get over it and saying, I think I should be a little bit more sad than I am, was her saying the small folk go through it just because I'm royals who doesn't mean it's sad and so Alison, you could kind of see her soften just a tiny bit and just be like, but you're allowed to be sad. So I more interpreted that as let me see how I can justify it in my head to just kind of move on from this. But I wouldn't be surprised if later in the episode or later, excuse me later in the season, we see her kind of take a turn because she may be trying to tell herself, I'm good, I'm okay. But then it's going to be like, I'm not, I'm actually not okay. Thank you. That was, that was very helpful. I did not think of it that way. Thank you for sharing that. I will, I will definitely like kind of move forward with that in mind because I think that that is a good interpretation because I think that is how a lot of people respond. They try to like distance themselves a little and try to rationalize. So thank you for sharing that. I will 100% keep that in mind, which actually doesn't help when you try to distance yourself because if you do start staying in bed and not taking care of the things, then you're just kind of internalizing everything and then everything goes worse. So yeah, no, it, I know everybody handles grief differently and it is a heavy and difficult subject to portray properly because of how everyone experiences it so differently. So yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I am, I am going to be more open to how they kind of take Helena in the future with that in mind. And we'll see. I could be completely wrong, but we'll see. I hope you're right. I don't, I don't, I don't look for her pain, but for like character realism and believability and like canon adherence, I do hope you're right. Yeah. Right. Now I did, I forgot, we did mention that I was going to ask you about nettles. So yeah, let's get into nettles really quickly as a reminder, nettles is the dragon. Seed. Yes. Nettles is our missing dragon seed. This is what I know. Nettles is a dragon seed and she and during the dragon seed section, she earns the trust of her dragon by feeding his name is sheepstealer. So she brings him a sheep. And so instead of like trying to walk up in Dohairus, the dragon, she brings him sheep and like, you know, bonds with him and me so she, she bonds with him that way and his name is sheepstealer. And so she is, I'm pretty sure she's part of the bow of the gullet. So which is why we should see her really, really soon. If not next episode, like as soon as possible, if we're getting her because she is part of the gullet. Do you remember the burning men from the mountains of the moon in Game of Thrones that Tyrion is with? People, if I have my lore correct, people think that the person who they got named after like the kind of hidden away woman with the fire witch or whatever they called her. That's not the right word. People think it was Nettles. So like a long time ago, they think it was her after the conclusion at Harenhall. They think it was Nettles. And I was like, so are you really going to leave her out in the last I have arrived? They've been once again. I really feel like I got a bunch of like my salt out earlier in the episode. But like there's nothing in fire and blood that ever made me think he wanted to throw in for himself to the degree that he would look someone in the eye and be like king. Even though I do think he should be called a king, like I do think the husband's queen should be king. The way the husband, the wives of kings are queens. I think that should be a thing. But what they meant by it in the show was that he still wasn't settled in who he wanted on the throne. Right. That's what they were trying to imply. And the dialogue during that scene, in my opinion, was confusing because the guy seemed surprised. They were going to take the throne. I was like, what did you think they were going to do? You know, what's the plan? Look at it. Like the throne. They're going to walk up and touch it. Yes. It seems so surprise. I was like, maybe you shouldn't have this castle. I love that David was like, you know, the seat with a bunch of swords, the throne. Right. I was like, what? What did you think he was? What did you think they were going to do? But David has- Why do you think I'm here? I know. David has so many opportunities. And there is a point where he deliberately makes a choice to throw all future opportunities away. Like, he does not want it. People. I love the opinion. He does love Reneera. And I think that, you know, after he got done getting back at his brother, like in the show, Damon's like 40 years old at this point, like he's done with fame. Like he's done with it. It's down to business now, people. Okay. We're not here. We're not doing this aiming to back and forth stuff. Like it's down to business for Damon. And I do think he loves Reneera. And even if the thing with nettles happens, like we're in Game of Thrones, there's moral greatness. Obviously. Having affairs is wrong. We're in Game of Thrones. So do what that information would you will. I do think he loves Reneera, at least up until a certain point where stuff between them started getting really like they were getting down to the wire toward the end. And so they just keep blaming him for everything. And it's just like what would have happened, like what really would have happened to Damon and Otto weren't here for the Damon thing. I also feel like they're really like we mentioned earlier, repressing his character, what we were talking about with the Damon and the Amund thing. Excuse me. Amund with a D. Yeah. But they're just really repressing that tension and repressing that hype and excitement. And I was thinking about how, when was the last time we saw Damon in battle, the crab feeder? I expected Herringhal to look a little cooler. Like they didn't give him anything cool to do. Like we saw the great house dinner and had a dream. I did like that's the one thing. Like I don't know what they're doing with Damon's character. I did kind of like the dream because I hope that that helps convince people he does care about her. He does not want the throne. Correct. If he wanted it, it's Damon Targaryen. He would have had it. And he actually felt some remorse and some guilt and regret. So a little bit of research I did before the show. We aren't sure if Alice Rivers actually did anything to his food, like maybe put anything in his food or drink or anything like that, or if he's actually just having these dreams potentially sleepwalking out of guilt and trauma and remorse because that actually was a mistake and an accident and he's not sure how to handle it. Yeah. And like I think that Martin has gone on record saying that Damon is his favorite character because of how like morally gray and unfigure out of old Damon is. And I think maybe they just don't know what to do with the character like Damon. And I think that that is why they are like nerfing him and Damon so much. But to me, like Damon and Damon are the pillars of the story, like they constantly move against each other. They are constantly trying to like one up each other. Damon doesn't have trial at heart. Damon's the one trying to one up Damon to be fair, but they are seeing any of those chest moves. I know. And it's to the point that like after Damon takes Harrenhal, Damon takes it after him. And then he's with Alice and it's just like, all right, Damon, we see what you're doing. Okay. Okay. So that's going to leave me perfectly into if they don't get shit together for next season for next episode, I don't know what we're going to do. Next episode should should be decent. Yes. And I actually have a really, really, really short next episode of predictions. It's got to be Rooks rest and I talked about it last episode. If you want an in-depth talk about it, we talked about it last episode, but Rooks rest is a big battle. I'm just going to say it. Oh, yeah. Okay. Are you sure? You want to say it? Sure. Yeah, I'm going and I'm going to say it really fast. Okay. If you don't want to click back to our other episode, you should, but if you don't want to Rooks rest a big battle, the green slice siege to a castle, castle asks for help. Rainies and Malies fly into a trap between Baker and Sunfire, the dragon's fight, Malies and Rainies do not walk away, but she has a really epic moment. It's going to be glorious if they do it right. And Aegon is severely injured and Amund will after that point style himself, protector of the realm, which is why I'm saying he's going to stop nerfing Amund because he's about to take the reins and we need to have some sort of like standard for him before he takes the reins. Okay. So if that is the case actually, that actually made me a little excited because if that's the case, then what they're doing with Amund right now, having him kind of fly under the radar as long as he has an upward momentum of like a 90 degree freaking angle up for the rest of the season, okay, I could forgive these last couple of episodes as long as they they go with it. You know, if works rest happens the way it's supposed to and they stop repressing both of these characters and everything happens the way you're saying. And what you mentioned something last episode about it's the age old, you give them more screen time because they may be going away, but they're doing that with Aegon too. So if I didn't know that he was going to get injured, so if he's actually going to get injured and he has to take, you know, step down, then maybe, maybe my hope I have optimism that if he gets injured, Amund can step up, Damon can step up, Alison can become a little bit more, yeah, claws out and especially what I'm hoping is Alison meet seeing Renira instead of pushing her into, oh, this was my childhood friend, we should be friends, we should this. I'm hoping that the audacity that Renira had to come to Alison in King's Landing actually pushes her over the edge of, man, fuck this bitch, let's go. You're the only one who knows I'm wrong, so now you got to go down. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, like, I mean, Amund does style himself, protect other realms. So if he does step in and step up, then, okay, they're going to have to really pull off works rest for me because this season has been really disappointing. So I am with you, like if they, if they can pull it off and they can just get that momentum and trajectory, I will hold on. I'm talking like it has to be like hard home level from season five of Game of Thrones battle. The bastards is my favorite episode of any show ever of when John Snow and Ramsay Bolton go, Ramsay Snow, go against each other. Hard home is when they, we first see the army of the dead, right when John Snow and takes the wild things and tries to save some wild things to pull into the wall. It has to be that, that style, that heart of a hitting episode for, for turn around for me. Same, I am, I am with you, like, I, I want Game of Thrones back. Like, I need the Game of Thrones energy to return because I am like, I am lagging. Like, I am losing interest. And that is something I have never said about Game of Thrones before. But if I have to, I will just have this in couple of days, like I don't need the show. Right. Right. How does it support you? That's so disappointing that we even have to admit that. I know. But like, I really, like, I enjoy decoding dragons. So I'm here for season two, regardless, like we're going to, season two, we're here regardless. Yeah. But to finish up our, like our next episode predictions, we should get the dragon seeds and at some point, so they claim their dragons after what happens to rainies because they are down a dragon and dragon rider. So after rainies, at some point, I don't know when anymore because they're just throw and filler at the wall until it sticks. But they should have dragonsies come and claim their dragons. Maybe they save nettles for last. Maybe we're going to see your next episode. But no matter what happens, I am like, hoping that Rook's Rest is next episode. That's all I got. It has to be. It has to be. Gotta be. And I watched next episode preview. And it still looks like Rook's Rest. So I'm just like, please. And I'm hoping it's like a full episode battle. I hope it's like, start to end, it ends with the big thing, but it starts the battle after battle after battle after let's just kill some people and get some blood on the screen. Hopefully that's what we've got. This has been an extremely long and extremely salty episode of decoding dragons. Very long, very salty. We are in an ocean at this point, but I know we will be back every week on Galpsupe.com during season two to recap the latest episode of House of the Dragon. There are also always articles recapping the episode. So if you don't have over an hour to watch us complain about it, you can read a pretty brief review of the episode and there's plenty of salt in there as well. But be sure to hit that like button, ring the bell and let us know in the comments what you'd like us to dive into. There's any lore requests you have that you want us to talk about and how you're feeling about season two. Like is it just us, are we just the ones disappointed in what's happening? Like maybe the whole world is feeling the same like, what am I watching right now? Please let us know. No. Yeah. I hope that we are not the only ones who are just like, how did you take Game of Thrones? Not just Game of Thrones, but the target. How do you make a target? You're boring. You're boring. How do you make a target? You're boring. Don't understand. Anyway. Thank you. So much for being here, please. Yes. Like she said, ring that bell and watch all the other episodes because they're really good. Yeah. We go off, as you can see, un-filtered. And we will see you next week with all the fire and… Are you ready to go down the rabbit hole? The All Things Alice podcast will explore the cultural phenomena of Alice in Wonderland. Frank Bador, the author of the Looking Glass Wars trilogy, is your host through a wonder verse of interviews from all types of creators as they chronicle the dark yet empowering reality of Lewis Carroll's fantasies and answer the question, "What is it about Alice that captivates us still today?" The All Things Alice podcast, available wherever you listen to podcasts. [MUSIC PLAYING]
House of the Dragon's "The Burning Mill" gave Liza and Michelle some THOUGHTS. They're back with Decoding Dragons, reacting to all the ways House of the Dragon is getting Targaryens, and the whole story - wrong. Don’t miss out: we're swimming in a sea of salt as we spill the "royal-tea" and break down the fire in each episode of Decoding Dragons, a show and podcast all about the epic lore fueling House of the Dragon. Instead of screaming at your TV, scream with us.
