First Person with Wayne Shepherd

First Person: Dr. Erwin Lutzer

Author and Pastor of Moody Church in Chicago, Erwin Lutzer tells his early life story and his subsequent call to the ministry. Send your support for FIRST PERSON to the Far East Broadcasting Company: FEBC National Processing Center Far East Broadcasting Company P.O. Box 6020 Albert Lea, MN 56007 Please mention FIRST PERSON when you give. Thank you!

Duration:: 23m
Broadcast on:: 21 Apr 2011
Audio Format:: other

Author and Pastor of Moody Church in Chicago, Erwin Lutzer tells his early life story and his subsequent call to the ministry.

Send your support for FIRST PERSON to the Far East Broadcasting Company:
FEBC National Processing Center
Far East Broadcasting Company
P.O. Box 6020
Albert Lea, MN 56007

Please mention FIRST PERSON when you give. Thank you!

(upbeat music) - Knowing God has become so important to me that whatever God may choose to do in me or through me really is secondary to the whole question of the value of knowing God. (upbeat music) - Join us now for First Person and today's guest, author and pastor, Dr. Erwin Lutzer of Moody Church in Chicago. Welcome to this week's conversation, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Erwin Lutzer is one of America's truly great pastors and Christian thinkers, but what are his roots? How did God first move in his heart and mind to convince him of the purpose he had for his life? We'll get the answers to those questions in just a moment from Dr. Lutzer. If you've yet to check into our website, I hope you'll do that today. We're found online at firstpersoninterview.com. In addition to information and links about today's guest, you'll find an audio archive of past interviews and a calendar what's to come. So look us up online at firstpersoninterview.com. Dr. Lutzer has been the pastor of Moody Church in Chicago for over 30 years. He's written dozens of books, but my questions for him had to do with where he started in life. And to start the conversation, I ask him if he had a favorite way to offer an Easter greeting. - Well, you know, whenever I begin the worship service at Moody Church on Easter morning, I always say, he is risen and then the congregation responds by saying he is risen indeed. And we usually do that two or three times. It has the effect of reminding people that no matter what has happened that morning, Jesus has been raised from the dead and we're here to celebrate his triumph. - And having been inside Moody Church countless times, I can just hear that beautiful building resonating with he is risen indeed. - Yes, and of course it is a marvelous service. God has given us such gifted musicians and the whole emphasis of course is one of triumph. And we need to understand the extent of that triumph because as has often been said, all other religious leaders are dead, but Jesus is alive and the implications are huge. - Well, we of course celebrate the resurrection here this weekend and it's a marvelous weekend to get to church and to celebrate with other believers. But on this program, I like to learn about people's lives. And as long as we've known each other, I realize I don't know a lot. I know you were born in Canada and raised in Canada, but that's about the extent I know of your early life. So let's start there, do you mind? - Not at all. In fact, I have to go back a little bit and talk about my parents. They were Germans raised in the Ukraine and in World War I, there was a fear in Russia that the Germans within their borders might mutiny and side with Germany in the war. So they became refugees. My father's family went to Afghanistan. His mother, my grandmother died there and a brother. My mother's family went to Siberia. Relatives died along the way, huge suffering. They came back, never knew each other, though they were born within 100 miles of each other, came to Canada, met in a little church. My father asks if he can walk my mother home. She worked a half mile from the church. This is their first date. On the way he asks whether or not she would marry him. - Oh my goodness. - She says that she'd have to think about it, but within three weeks they were married. And my father died at 106, and my mother's 102, and I spoke to her last Saturday. They were married for 77 years. And I always say, Wayne, that my parents lived so long that I'm sure until my father died, all of their friends in heaven thought that they just didn't make it. - Was this Western Canada? - Yes, Saskatchewan, which is north of Montana, North Dakota. - So what was it like growing up? - Oh, a farm. I was born on a farm six miles from a town of 75 people. We milked cows, we had wheat, and we would take that and sell it in the country elevator. - So you had a list of chores, no doubt. - Oh, no doubt. Actually, I was the youngest, so my chore list was a lot shorter than those of my brothers and sisters. But exactly, and so I milked cows, and of course I spent most of my time on a tractor. And that's where I began to memorize scripture. - Okay. - During my college time, when I was in Bible college, Winnipeg Bible college, I made a promise that I would not graduate until I could quote the entire book of John. So I worked on it for years, you know, would forget what I had done and kept redoing it. But I would study then in the evening, and during the day, quote scripture on the tractor. One time, I quoted the entire book of John, two hours and 15 minutes beginning from, in the beginning is the word, right to the end. On another occasion, on the tractor, I quoted scripture for four hours and 15 minutes without repeating myself. Because I had added Ephesians and 10 of the Psalms, and first Peter and a number of other books. - Well, back up, what gave you that hunger for the word? - Wayne, I can't explain that except to say this, that even as a teenager, there was something within me that told me my destiny wasn't the farm. And then something else happened that was revolutionary. I came across Billy Graham. I listened to the hour of decision as a teenager, as often as I could. In fact, because he was on two different stations, I would listen to him on a Sunday afternoon at 3.30 and one station and maybe four o'clock on another. And I always say that my generation of teenagers was into Elvis Presley and I was into Billy Graham. And no one will know. And I tried to tell Mr. Graham this once, but I don't know whether or not he accepted it because he is so humble. But nobody will know the impact of Billy Graham on my life. As something else happened, his first film was Mr. Texas. My sister comes into the room and says, we're going to Wayburn. That was a town about 20 miles away, maybe 5,000 people. That was huge for us. - Everything was probably 20 miles away. - Everything was 20 miles away. And she said, there's a film called Mr. Texas and it features Billy Graham. And I remember saying to her, who's Billy Graham? And she said, well, he's this evangelist in the United States who preaches to large crowds and hundreds of people get saved. I went there and I'd love to see that movie again, by the way. And they've told me at the Graham Center, I can sometime. - Good. - But I'll tell you, I remember Billy Graham coming out. You know how they'd have this thing about Mr. Texas, how he gets sick and then goes to the crusade, however the story goes. And then suddenly there's Billy Graham, Vousholt, not commit adultery. - Reaching his heart out. - Vousholt, not steal. And I just became mesmerized. So that-- - You were how old would that happen? - 11, 12. And I came home and began to sketch pictures of Billy Graham in my school books. (laughing) And what happened is, as time went on, then I went to Bible college. Again, there was something within me that said that, you know, the farm was not my destiny. And Wayne, what can I attribute that to? Praying parents. You know, when I look at what I've been able to do to the glory of God, I haven't done it. I have just really done nothing except fulfill a calling that I think was laid out for me because of godly parents who prayed for us all the time. So that's the story of my life. - I know now you'd probably say that Martin Luther is a hero in your life. I was gonna ask you who your early heroes were, but obviously Billy was number one. - Billy was number one. And what happened is Martin Luther became an interest of mine when I, in 1970, went to the sites of the Reformation with a Lutheran scholar. And I got very interested in Luther and through Luther, God very interested in Hitler. So that's why I've written two books, you know, Hitler's Cross, Hitler's Cross. And then when a nation forgets God, seven lessons we must learn from Nazi Germany. So those books grew out of my interest in how could Nazi Germany happen. But Luther, I don't agree with him theologically about infant baptism and a number of other things. But the thing that I admire is his courage, the fact that he uncovered the gospel and understood justification by faith alone with a great deal of clarity. And of course, his impact is absolutely enormous. - Let me take you back to those early days though. From where did you get the encouragement? It's one thing to feel this call and stirring. And I felt that as a boy towards radio, I had no idea what that meant or what form it would take. But I felt, so I think I know what you're talking about. But who encouraged you? - You know, I went to a country school and with horse and buggy, and in winter with a sleigh. - How about that? - To the eighth grade, that's as far as it went. Then I took a year by correspondence, did terrible. I couldn't study alone, I was doing other things. 10th grade, I went to a Christian high school. And in this Christian high school, a friend of mine and I, we would preach together. We even went into an old school house that was nonexistent and we'd pretend that we were Billy Graham's preaching. I mean, this really gets crazy, but that's why you're so good at imitating him today, right? That's why I still do Billy today. But the point is that throughout that time, and then as a teenager at the age of 17, I preached my first sermon on Moses, which to no one's surprise, most of which was taken from Billy Graham's book, "Peace with God." I still remember the sermon. People would say, "You know, you have the gift of preaching. "You're gonna be a preacher someday." And you know, those motivations. - Isn't it amazing how a word and season like that can just affirm a young person? - Huge, huge, because a young person doesn't know his identity or his giftedness. And if he's good in something and people affirm that, then what you're always weighing, a person is always gonna be motivated to do where he has been affirmed, right? - For me, it was a plumber in my church who poked me in the ribs when my voice changed and said, "Don't you think this kid belongs in radio?" - Isn't that amazing? - That was the spark. - So to all the people who are listening to this, encourage some young person, encourage a child, and they will begin to be motivated to do better in that area of encouragement. - So you went to Winnipeg to Bible College, and your gift was stirred again, and quipped, and-- - Oh, yes, of course. That's right. - It was a gift of scripture memory, and so forth. And then we had a professor there who I'd never heard of, and he was the new president, young man, full of energy, whose name was Elmer Towns. And one day Elmer Towns, who I also impersonated back in those days, by the way, but one day Elmer Towns said to me, "Erwin, you should go to Dallas Seminary." Never heard of Dallas Seminary. I mean, remember, I'm a farm boy brought up on the farms of Saskatchewan, who's ever heard of Dallas Seminary. And so I asked him about it, and he said, "I will write you a letter that will commend you to Dallas." And so he wrote a letter, I ended up at Dallas Seminary, the fall that Kennedy was shot. I remember that with a great deal of clarity, we just came out of a classroom and heard it. But when I arrived there, it was so lonely, I walked up and down Swiss Avenue, crying every single night. Scared to death that I was gonna flunk out of seminary. Far from home had never been that far from home in my life before, and thought, "What is this?" But I hung in there, and of course, I got over my loneliness, meeting guys, and enjoying seminary. And then remarkably, I ended up teaching in Canada, but again, restless, come to the United States, and here I am. And I think it's working out just fine. More with Erwin Litzer coming up on "First Person." Cindy Farini is a mom who takes care of her young adult son who has cerebral palsy. In the early years, if God would have come to me and said, "Would you like me to heal Joey?" I would have said yes in a minute. But if he were to come to me today and ask that same question, knowing what I've learned and how I've grown, I would absolutely say keep him just as he is. The unexpected journey of living with special needs next time on "First Person." It's God who designs a person's life, and we're getting an illustration of that through the life story of Dr. Erwin Litzer today on "First Person." There were times when I walked through doorways and had no idea how important they were. At the time, it was just an average decision. Let me give you one example of God's providence. I told you earlier that I attended a Christian high school. It also has a Bible school. So the professors there wanted me to stay on for Bible school, which many high school students did. I was going to fill out a form to stay there and get a scholarship, which they promised me. And I never wrote my name on the page. Something just said, "No." Couldn't figure out why, no freedom to do it. Through various steps of providence, instead of going there, I went to Winnipeg Bible College. Now, why is that important? The Bible College in Saskatchewan did not offer degrees. Winnipeg Bible College did. I could have never gone to Dallas Seminary were it not for going to Winnipeg Bible College first. And so that's the story of my life. Let me give you a couple of other providences. I didn't know I could write. The year is about 1970, I wrote a dissertation regarding situation ethics, and put it in a file drawer like everybody puts theirs in the file drawer. I forgot about it. A professor at Trinity Seminary, we were actually in Chicago area at that time. He said, "I'm going to debate Joseph Fletcher, the great guy regarding situation ethics." I said, "I wrote a dissertation about him." He said, "Bring it to me. I brought it to him." He came back, he used it in the debate, and he said, "Erwin Luther, this is so good, this should be published." I could never have thought that it never crossed my mind. I remember in Bible College having a clear thought that someday I might write a tract. - Some day, some day. - A tract. So that's the story. - We know you, of course, for many years as senior pastor of Moody Church in Chicago, but you took us up to Dallas. What happened in between Dallas Seminary Days and Chicago and my church? - In Dallas Seminary, while I was there, I met the woman who would become my wife, Rebecca. She was attending Dallas Bible College, and I was attending Dallas Seminary, and we met in a church. And then I went up to Canada to teach, at the same Bible College where I'd gone to high school. - Okay. - And then a year later, Rebecca and I were married, but the problem was I felt restless again. I thought, "Is this all there is?" So we come to the United States. I'm going to go to a school I thought out in the East Coast where I was accepted to do a PhD in philosophy, because by now my interest was in becoming a professor, really. I didn't know what shape all this would take. We get to Chicago, and here's where the providence continues, the providence of God. Someone at Moody Bible Institute says, "Don't go there, attend Loyola University. "You can study philosophy there, "and you can teach part-time at Moody Bible Institute." That was in the early '70s. So I did. Then I became the pastor of Edgewater Baptist Church in Chicago. - Those were the days when we met, yes. - Those were the days when we met. Those would have been in the early '70s, and then one of the most remarkable providences. I just can't get over this way. All right, it's 1977, and we decide that we're going to leave Edgewater because I want to work at Loyola full-time. I'm doing a dissertation, et cetera, okay? And then I'm scheduled to teach at Moody Bible Institute in the fall, full-time. We wake up without a church to go to the first Sunday of April because my resignation was effective the end of March so they have a farewell for us, and we don't know where to go to church. I want to go to a different church, which was Circle Church, which existed in those days. Rebecca said, "No, let's go to Moody Church." Now, I don't know if I should tell this to our audience or not, but God often leads me through my wife, okay? - That's just a pretty much. - I've heard that, yeah, yeah. - Oh, you did your experience that, actually. - You've experienced that, actually. - So we're going down to Moody Church. Now, this is 1977. We have only two children parking as tight as a drum all along La Salle Street. I say to Rebecca, I'm going to drop you off and I'll find you in the lobby. Lo and behold, right there on La Salle Street, somebody, I notice, fidgeting with the keys. He pulls this car out, I back in, think, "My, this is fortunate." I go into the lobby, find Rebecca, and pastor Wiersby is there with his coat on and he's leaving, and he doesn't see me, but I see him, I put my hand on his shoulder and I said, "Wiersby, it's 10 minutes before the service." I said, "Where are you going?" He said, "Everyone, Luther, I'm sick. I'm on my way home. Will you preach for me this morning?" - Oh my goodness. - The first time we ever attended Moody Church for a service, I preached at Moody Church. This is 1977. I went to the back, I took an envelope and I wrote out an outline from Psalm 1, a message I had previously preached on meditating in the law of God day and night. And now I can reveal this now that I've been at Moody Church for 31 years. But God is my witness as I stood on that platform, only half seriously, I said to myself, "You know, if they ever call me, I'll say yes." (laughing) - You couldn't share that with anybody. - No, I couldn't share that with anybody because that was unthinkable. Pastor Wiersby was the pastor. But here's what happened. A year or two later, he resigned. I became the interim pastor for 18 months and we encouraged the committee to find someone else. I knew that I was gonna be the pastor. This was as certain to me as anything, but I wanted them to investigate other possibilities. So nobody would say, "Well, we chose Pastor Lutzor too soon." So after a year and a half of that, the congregation actually began to write a letter. They had a letter writing campaign to the committee that said, "Look, don't you see "that God has called Pastor Lutzor here?" Now earlier, the committee had asked me and I said, "No, I want you to investigate "other possibilities." But once that began to happen, I said, "Okay, now they're serious." - You know, as you share that, I'm thinking all the way back to your mom and dad who could have had other plans for your life, but they were open to what God had for you and no doubt encouraged you. - You know what the remarkable thing is? Here's something that sometimes almost brings tears to my eyes when I think about it. My grandfather that is on my mother's side came here to Chicago before World War I with the intention of bringing his family here. World War I broke out and he got to be in the last boat that would go back to the old country, back to the Ukraine before no passengers were allowed on the boats because all of the boats were full of war material. So he got back there, but when he was here in Chicago intending to bring his family over, he wrote back and said, "The buildings here are so high "that God must have built them." I've often thought to myself, "My grandfather, I'm sure, "never dreamed." And of course I never met any of my grandparents, but he never dreamed that someday he'd have a grandson in Chicago who was the pastor of a church. - His own flesh and blood. - Yes, and you know, my parents didn't know English too well. In fact, when they came here they knew no English from the Ukraine, but they did learn it very well in the latter years of their life. But what they said early on was this, we cannot speak English very well, but we hope that through our children, the gospel will go out. I have two sisters, both of whom were missionaries, one in Africa for 30 years, one in Mexico with her husband with Wycliffe for about 20 or 25 years. And then their youngest son has had the opportunity of preaching the gospel to a lot of people. It's the vision of parents who in their simplicity hung on to God, trusted him. I'll never forget, it's about 1959. Hail comes and wipes out the whole crop. My father didn't have insurance. It's our whole year's worth of money. Our parents had us get on our knees to thank God for his goodness. That's more powerful than sermons preached, you know. And that's the impact of a life lived for God. I have indeed a goodly heritage. My father's in heaven, my mother's still alive. But I'll tell you, it's all of God. You've spent a lifetime preaching, writing, teaching. How do you look at God's word now? Is there a passage that just speaks to your heart about all that God has done? Well, there are many passages that I could refer to Wayne frequently when I sign a person's Bible or book. I use Psalm 1611, where it says, "Thou will make known to me the path of life. In thy presence, there is fullness of joy. At thy right hand, there are pleasures forevermore." And I want to emphasize that at the end of the day, knowing God has become so important to me that whatever God may choose to do in me or through me really is secondary to the whole question of the value of knowing God. And that at the end of the day is the calling to which all of us have been called in helping others know God as well, along their journey. I really enjoy hearing the back story of a person's life. Fun to sit and talk to Dr. Erwin Litzer and hear his story knowing how powerfully God has used him as a pastor, speaker, and writer. Didn't even get a chance to mention his extensive ministry on radio through running to win songs of the night in the Moody Church Hour. But we'll provide a link on our websites so you can learn more. That website is FirstPersonInterview.com. The link to Dr. Litzer is there. Plus, you can listen to any previous First Person Interview by clicking on the Listen button. There's also a calendar of upcoming interviews and a way to contact us all at FirstPersonInterview.com or look us up on Facebook. Next week, our guest will be Cindy Ferini. Cindy and her husband Joe have written a book called "Unexpected Journey," telling the story of raising their son who has cerebral palsy and other special needs. What they have learned is helping other families and we'll talk about it next week. Well, thanks for listening today. You can contact us through our website, FirstPersonInterview.com. Now, with thanks to my friend and producer, Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepard. We'll be here and invite you to join us next week for First Person. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) You [BLANK_AUDIO]