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Matt and Sam discuss former KYE guest and disgraced DeSantis speechwriter Nate Hochman — fired for sharing a neo-nazi meme. What is going on with young conservatives?
Duration
1h 18m
Broadcast on
21 Aug 2023
Audio Format
other

Three weeks ago, one-time Know Your Enemy guest and “frenemy” of the show Nate Hochman was fired from Ron DeSantis’s presidential campaign for his role in producing a campaign video featuring a Nazi “sonnenrad” symbol. (You may have read about it!) Unsurprisingly, the Hochman affair inspired some soul-searching on the part of your podcast hosts: had we inadvertently exposed our audience to a neo-nazi? Was our original December 2021 interview insufficiently combative — or too credulous (as many of our most vigilant listeners have suggested)? Were we naive about the value of welcoming young conservatives on the show? And, perhaps most illuminatingly, what can Hochman’s trajectory (from Never-Trump conservative and Michael Oakeshott fan to disgraced DeSantis speechwriter) tell us about the young right today?

After all, Hochman was not alone. A few weeks before the Hochman affair, DeSantis influencer and Chronicles magazine editor Pedro Gonzalez was exposed for expressing virulent anti-Semitic sentiments in private group chats in 2019. And most recently, Huffington Post reported that Richard Hanania, another young conservative — a darling of Silicon Valley reactionaries and a frequent interlocutor with centrist pundits on Twitter — had lived a previous life as an alt-right white supremacist and misogynist.

In this episode, we ask (not for the first time): what exactly is going on with young conservatives? Has the wall between mainstream conservatism and unacceptably hard-right sentiments completely broken down? Was it ever there? Or has it only become more porous in the age of Twitter, Telegram, and online anonymity? Did the alt-right of 2016, with its Pepe memes and winking fascist apologia, ever go away? Or did it merely merge, seamlessly, with today’s young right, turning an entire generation of GOP operatives into half-ironic racists, neofascists, and violent homophobes?

 

Further Reading:

Michelle Goldberg, “The Radicalization of the Young Right,” NYTimes, July 31, 2023.

“Young, Radical, and on the Right, with Nate Hochman,” KYE, Dec 16, 2021.

"How Euphemisms Muddy Our Political Conversations," On the Media (WNYC), Jan 21, 2022

David Weigel and Shelby Talcott, “‘This belongs in the Smithsonian’: Inside the meme video operation that swallowed Ron DeSantis’ campaign,” Aug 1, 2023.

Sam Adler-Bell, “The Radical Young Intellectuals Who Want to Take Over the American Right,” The New Republic, Dec 2, 2021.

Michael Oakeshott, “On Being Conservative,” from Rationalism in politics and other essays, 1962.

John Ganz, “They’re All Like That,” Unpopular Front, Aug 6, 2023.

Jordan Nixon-Hamilton, “‘F**k This President’: More Messages Show Pro-DeSantis Influencer Pedro Gonzalez Turned on Trump in 2019,” Breitbart, Aug 1, 2023.

Christopher Mathias, “Richard Hanania, Rising Right-Wing Star, Wrote For White Supremacist Sites Under Pseudonym,” Huffington Post, Aug 4, 2023.

 

...and don't forget to subscribe to Know Your Enemy on Patreon for access to all of our bonus episodes!

All right, welcome listeners to episode 77 of Know Your Enemy. I'm Matt Sippman, your podcast co-host. And I'm here as always with my great friend Sam other bell. Hey, Sam, I'm at your back from sunny California. Yeah, I'm a new man. Are you bringing the West Coast vibes and chill attitude? Honestly, no, as soon as I got back within one of the boroughs of New York City, I immediately felt all my anxiety, neuroticism, and despair return in full force, like a wave of humid heat just hit me. And I was immediately a wreck again. But I really did feel a lot of lucidity and calm when I was on the West Coast. Well, you know, I'll be honest, just come out with it right away. This is an episode that I have a not in the pit of my stomach, putting it out. I'll be very interested to see how listeners respond. Me too. Do you want to tell them what we're up to this episode? The log line would be we are looking into several instances of prominent young conservative pundits and operatives getting into trouble for being very, very racist. And one of those young conservatives who got in trouble was Nate Hockman, who we as many listeners will remember. We had on this podcast in December 2021, and we thought it was time to revisit that episode, sort of just talk about how we did and how we've ended up in this situation. Yes, though, by the end, you know, we kind of zoom out a little bit and end up talking about our approach to the conversations we have on the podcast more generally. Yeah. And also kind of what these three examples and the one of Nate in particular kind of tells us about where the right is at right now. Yeah, I agree. I don't think we need to give anything else away. I'm sure we'll hear from the listeners about this episode. Should we do some housekeeping now? Yes, as always, we're grateful to our partners at Descent. They sponsor the podcast. We love partnering with them. And one thing they do for us is if you subscribe to know your enemy at patreon.com/knowyourenemy for $10 a month or more, you get a free digital subscription to Descent. And of course, if you subscribe for $5 a month at the young Americans for Freedom Tier, you get access to all of our bonus episodes, which I want to plug one of them. Our most recent one was on conservative fans of the Grateful Dead. And it was so fun with Sophie Hegney. If you aren't subscribed, you're missing out on so much us talking about a band that most people hate for a long, long time. I guess indeed. As always, we also want to thank our intrepid producer, Jesse Breneman and Will Epstein, who does the music for the podcast. Oh, right.

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Matt and Sam discuss former KYE guest and disgraced DeSantis speechwriter Nate Hochman — fired for sharing a neo-nazi meme. What is going on with young conservatives?