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Know Your Enemy

How They Did It: Overturning Roe, Pt. 1 (w/ the 5-4 podcast)

Matt and Sam are joined by Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael from the 5-4 podcast to discuss the impending end of Roe v. Wade, especially the conservative legal movement's role and the right's use of the courts in how we got here.
Duration
1h 23m
Broadcast on
28 May 2022
Audio Format
other

On May 5, Politico published a leaked draft of the majority opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health, written by Justice Samuel Alito, that would overturn Roe v. Wade. How did we get here? In the first of three episodes dedicated to answering that question, Matt and Sam talk to Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael of the 5-4 Podcast about the conservative legal movement's role and the right's use of the courts in achieving their aims. What were the main arguments in the leaded Dobbs decision, and where did these ideas come from? How important was opposition to abortion rights to the development of originalism and organizations like the Federalist Society? What function has the Federalist Society served in the conservative takeover of the Supreme Court? Also discussed in this episode: the relationship between radical, violent anti-abortion groups and the broader anti-abortion legal movement, the narrower victories the right won against abortion rights along the way, and what might come next from an emboldened conservative movement with the Supreme Court on their side.

Sources:

Josh Gerstein and Alexander Ward, "Supreme Court Has Voted to Overturn Abortion Rights, Draft Opinion Shows," Politico, May 5, 2022

5-4 Podcast, "Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health: The End of Roe," May 4, 2022

5-4 Podcast, "The Return of the Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 1," January 4, 2022

                               "The Return of the Rise and Fall of Roe v. Wade, Pt. 2," January 4, 2022

Know Your Enemy (w/ 5-4's Rhiannon), "The Texas Bounty Hunter Bill," September 30, 2021

Amanda Hollis-Brusky, Ideas with Consequences: The Federalist Society and the Conservative Counterrevolution (Oxford University Press, 2019)

Ilyse Hogue and Ellie Langford, The Lie That Binds (Strong Arm Press, 2020)

Joshua C. Wilson, The Street Politics of Abortion: Speech, Violence, America's Culture Wars (Stanford University Press, 2013)

...and don't forget to subscribe to Know Your Enemy on Patreon to access to all of our bonus episodes!

All right. Welcome listeners to episode 56 of Know Your Enemy. I'm Matt Sippmann, your podcast co-host, and I'm here with my great friend, Sam Adler Bell. Hi, Matt. Hey, Sam, I'm excited for, well, all of our episodes, but this one in particular. Yeah, it's a good one. This is the first of a three-part series we're planning on them pending overturning of Roe v. Wade. Yeah, exactly. This episode in particular is on the legal aspect of that, the federal society, the conservative legal movement, the kind of intellectual work that conservatives did around Roe v. Wade to kind of get us to this point. Yeah, exactly. So listeners can look forward to at least two more episodes in this series, how they did it on the rights battle against abortion rights. So who do we have on for this one? You know, we were thinking about who we could have on to talk about this, and there really was no other choice than our great friends at the Five to Four podcast. So Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael joined us. They were fantastic. We couldn't have asked for better guests. We had a lot of fun doing it with them. We're very grateful they took the time to talk with us. Absolutely. We've had them on the podcast once before. Their podcast, Five to Four, about why the Supreme Court sucks is awesome. So they were perfect guests for this episode. Yes, and we wanted to plug another podcast before we get to our housekeeping items. Speaking of Five to Four, you know, we were first put in touch with our friends at that podcast by Leon Naefok, podcast guru. You'll remember him from slow burn back in the slate days. His new podcast is fiasco. This is there's a new season of it on the AIDS crisis in America, and it's available and audible. And we wanted to plug that because Leon's been a great friend of the pod. And you know, these deep dives he does really, I love listening to them. And I think this series on the AIDS crisis, again, available and audible, there'll be a lot of overlap that our listeners will appreciate. I think especially, of course, it's all unfolded during the Reagan years. Yeah, and listeners will remember we had Leon on along with Rick Pearlstein when he did his season of fiasco on the Boston busing crisis. That's a great episode. That season was excellent too. But I feel like for our listeners, just as much this series on the AIDS crisis is going to be right in their wheelhouse. You got the Christian right, you've got Reagan, obviously. And also, the whole season was recorded and unfolded during COVID. And so a lot of the people who are remembering back to that time were making connections between now and then, which were probably very illuminating. Yes. So we wanted to give a shout out to Leon's new podcast, the latest season of fiasco on Audible. Well, Sam, I think we should get to housekeeping items that turn this over to the conversation we had. Yeah. As always, we're grateful for our partners at Descent for sponsoring the podcast. One of the things they do that is really great is for $10 a month, if you subscribe to knowyourademyonpatreon.com/knowyourademy, you get access not only to all of our bonus episodes, but a free digital subscription to Descent. And of course, for $5 a month, you have access to all of our bonus episodes. So please do consider supporting us in that way. And as always, we want to thank Jesse Brennan, our intrepid producer, who did a great job pulling this episode together and Will Epstein, who does the music for the podcast. And as always, rate and review us on iTunes and tell your friends about Know Your Enemy. Yes, spread the word. Well, with that, let's get to it. This is the first of three episodes we're going to do on the impending overturning of Roe v. Wade. If you don't enjoy it, we at least hope you come away from it informed about what's happening. All right, here we go. Well listeners, we're very excited to be joined by our friends at the Five to Four Podcasts. Michael, Rhiannon, and Peter, welcome. Hey. Hello. Hi, thanks for having us. Because there's a lot of people on the podcast, could you all just say your names, introduce yourselves? Yeah, sure. I am Peter. I'm Michael. And everybody will be able to tell me a part. I'm Rhiannon. We're really excited to talk to you. We know you're very busy. It's been a, the news cycle regarding Supreme Court cases has been, I'm sure you guys have been taxed. Yeah, you can say that. Yeah, but you know, for the sake of your podcast, I think more and more people are agreeing with the premise that the Supreme Court does indeed suck. Yes. Isn't that convenient? We started this podcast a couple years ago now. And now everybody's

Transcription truncated.

Matt and Sam are joined by Peter, Rhiannon, and Michael from the 5-4 podcast to discuss the impending end of Roe v. Wade, especially the conservative legal movement's role and the right's use of the courts in how we got here.