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Manscaped even threw in two free gifts to their Performance Package 5.0, the Manscaped Boxers and the Shed Travel Bag. I have both of those and they are both awesome. Get 20% off and free shipping with the code THPN at Manscaped.com. Ask 20% off plus free shipping with the code THPN at Manscaped.com. It's smooth summer boys. Get on board or get left behind. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody to the HockeyThink Tank Podcast brought to you by the hockeythinktank.com website for all players, parents and coaches to go to get a little bit of education and a little bit of inspiration regarding the greatest game on the planet. What an episode we have for you guys here today. We are bringing on two guys who are working with the Nashville Junior Predators down in Nashville, but they are two of the most accomplished people in youth hockey that we know. We're bringing on Mike Barra, a repeat guest and Kevin Mueller, again, both working with the Nashville Junior Preds. I was down in Nashville for the Elite Edge Hockey Camp this week and got to do it live. Unfortunately, the male model was not there with us, so you'll get him here on the intro and you'll get him on short shifts later in the week, but not so much in this conversation, but it was a really, really good conversation. Vex is actually coach with Mike Barra down in St. Louis before he moved on over to Nashville and Kevin Mueller worked really closely with Trevor Edwards, if you remember, from a couple weeks ago with the Penns Elite program before going down to Nashville as well. Awesome, awesome conversation. But before we do get over to them, let's bring on another awesome, awesome guy, a guy named a one, Jeffrey J who livekio Vex. What's shaking today, brother? Man, I just laugh every time you say Jeffrey J who I think it is just the absolute best. I don't know if it's been like, I don't know if I've not said J who I know this intro in a long time. It is the only name that I want to be called anymore. For any of you that are new to the podcast, I played in Japan towards the end of my career for two years and they don't have the letter F in their language. So they couldn't say Jeff. So they called me J who, everybody on the team announcing J who low back Iosan. So J who I just love being called J who, but anyways, man, I'm so jealous that you got to see the Mike Barra. I freaking love Mike Barra. We've had them on the podcast before when I retired after the 2017, 2018 season over in the Austrian league, I came back home and I was just supposed to be the strength coach for the midget program, the 15s, 16s and 18s of the AAA blues and bears just wouldn't get out of my side, wouldn't stop asking me to, you know, be an assistant coach with them. I'm so glad I was, I'm so glad that I did it. I did the 18s with him the first year, the second year I did the 16s with him and it was an unbelievable experience, he's so knowledgeable, he's so dialed in at helping players of that age. He's just, he's what youth hockey needs. He's in it for the right reasons. He does all the extra work. I am so upset that we lost him in St. Louis to another city. It really grinds my gears because he's somebody that can really help a program in so many different ways, especially the little ways that aren't sexy and that people don't see in the little details that that really help a program run. I'm really hoping that we can get him back here in St. Louis. That's neither here nor there. Sad I wasn't down there in Nashville with you guys. Maybe I'll get an invite one day, who knows won't hold my breath, but anyways, excited to be on the podcast and see you bro. You did get an invite. Oh, did I? Wow. He's very busy. I can't go anywhere in the summer, bro. Seven days a week on that grind. Anyways, anyways. Was it good? Just wanted to make sure that was clear. But yeah, Brandon Walker, who works with the Preds, he's been doing this camp for 19 years now. Wow. He went camp for 19 years. You're doing something right and getting the opportunity to go out there and kind of see it firsthand. And he brings some college guys in to work with the players and stuff like that. And it's cool because it's college guys from like every level. It's not just like D one guys D one D three club, like junior, like there's coaches at every level. And it's great because not only are the kids going to learn from all these different people, but it's great networking, especially from these younger guys. And so I used to go to a lot of these camps in the summer to work them when I was coaching in college and I was always the younger guy. And then it was so weird to go back because I hadn't been to one in a bit and to go back and now I'm like the elder statesman, old balls, but it was really cool. But it was really, really cool to do that and to see some of these younger guys that are coaching at like maybe the lower levels of college or in junior hockey that have aspirations and are hungry and are grinders that that really want to like be a coach and kind of ascend up the coaching ladder. So like it was really cool to see them and think about where I was when they when I was their age. And it was just cool to be one of the older guys where the younger guys were all coming up and like, Hey, how'd you do this? And hey, blah, blah, blah, I'm just talking hockey and and and that's a cool thing. Like if you like for all the coaches out there, like if you have a dream and you want to coach at the higher levels, these are the kinds of things you have to be doing, finding camps, finding clinics, junior camps, like where college coaches or other junior coaches are are kind of getting together. And even if you have to do it for free, hey, just like, let me get in front of these people and start to network and start to show people my value like it's so incredibly important from a networking perspective, but it's also so incredibly important just from your own development perspective too and and learning from some of these people we were talking about it like, you know, I've learned more over a couple of beers and some wings at some of these types of events to my for my development as a hockey coach than any hockey coaches conference I've ever been to. It's just having the ability to go back and forth and talk with people and learn from different people in different walks of life at different stages of their coaching career and stuff like it's so incredibly valuable. And that's what this weekend was it was really, really cool. And so it was a good time to say the least. That's awesome, man. Nashville's a pretty, pretty awesome city too. I, I figured I love Nashville. I love now. I'll definitely have a house in Nashville 10 years from now. No doubt. 100%. Like I love that city man. It's such a cool vibe. People are, you know, yeah, it's a good city. Yeah. I'm jealous. I'm jealous. So a lot of hockey news, a lot of hockey news that I wanted to kind of go over here in our intro before we need to get over to these guys. First of all, Mike Shafer is retiring as the head coach of Cornell hockey. Next year will be his final year 30 years as the head Cornell, which is absolutely insane. Not something you're going to see very often anymore. And he's been, you know, the team's been at the top of the country ish, if not at the top of the country for a lot of those 30 years, and it was really amazing. And I didn't know about it. It was so crazy. So like apparently we all, and they kept this one low key, like nobody knew about it and not even me. I didn't have any heads up. And all of a sudden, like I'm on a text chain with some of my former teammates. And they're kind of talking like, I guess there was an email that went out. And I didn't, I didn't see it until later, but like there was an email that went out to like all the alums and season ticket holders, like, hey, there's going to be a zoom at four o'clock. I think it was four o'clock at some point, whatever it was last week. And then all of a sudden, like I'm seeing here in these, or I'm seeing these texts from some of the guys. I'm like, what is going on? So I was like, taking my, or getting my kids back from school. So I wasn't really looking at my text. And then finally, I like going to my email when I get back and, and I open it up and I hear like the AD and like shapes on the screen, along with like 300 other people and Jonesy's on the screen. Casey Jones, who's the head coach at Clarkson. And like people are talking and I'm like, what is going on? And then all of a sudden, like it comes to like, holy crap, shapes retiring next year. And Josie's taking his job and he's going to come in as the associate head coach this year. Because Benny just got the job at Princeton. And I'm like, what is going on right now? But the crazy part is, is like, as soon as like, they were kind of done, I was like, hey, I got to say something in front of everybody. I played for shave, coach for shave, obviously I'm really close. And like I started being like, wow, I can't believe that. And like I started to choke up, I started to get emotional. And I was like, man, like it's so weird to think about cornal hockey without him at the helm. And it's, it's wild. I mean, you think about it. I say it all the time. But there's no other program that I know of in the country whose identity is as said as cornal hockey. Like, I don't think there's any other program in the country where when you say cornal hockey or whatever hockey, you know exactly what that means. And that's a testament to shave and the accountability and the standard of excellence and just the way that he's gone about his business and it's incredible, man. So congrats to coach Shafer, what an unbelievable career, 30 years at the helm. And I am happy as an alum to Casey Jones's phenomenal. He's had a great track record. He's been an assistant at Cornell. He was an assistant at Ohio State for a long time and had some really good years there. He was the head coach at Clarkson, I believe the last 12 years. And he was actually when I came in to Cornell is when Casey left to go to Clarkson. And just a phenomenal coach, just a bundle of energy, great guy, he's an alum and he's really tight with shave too. So this is kind of like a great plan from the AD and shave and Jonesy to kind of orchestrate this thing. And so yeah, congrats to shave on a great career, congrats to Casey for being the coach and waiting. He'll be the associate head coach this year and then a send to the head coach next year. And man, just crazy times in Cornell hockey, man. That's pretty cool. Wow. Coach, if 30 years that is, that's absolutely amazing and to be able to have a program where the culture is so set in stone and so positive for 30 years, that takes so much work to keep that culture at that intense level. And this is what is expected when you are a big red, whatever that means, when, you know, a big stick of red gum or something, like this is what is expected. If you're going to come to Cornell, this is what you're going to get. This is how we're going to play all these types of things. And that's really cool. I forgot. I was like, Casey Jones, like he offered me when he was at Ohio State. Oh, yeah. My second year in Omaha, Ohio State was my dream school, but I only think he offered me a two for four and I just couldn't do that to my parents. So I said, no, but that man, that's, that's wild. And he was coaching one of my guys at Clarkson those last two years. So really cool. Really cool. I've heard nothing but good things about him. So I know, I know you're, you're precious. Big red is in good hands here. They're in good hands, man. They're in good hands. Also a couple other pieces of coaching news. Number one, a former podcast guest, Kirk McDonald, who took the Dubuque Fighting Saints of the USHL to the Clark Cup finals this year, just got the head coaching job in Wilkesburg for Pittsburgh Penguins, HL team. And so congrats to KMac. Great dude. I think you were around in Providence roommates in Boston. One of the training camps, actually, he hates my snoring, well, hates my snoring. Great guy texted him the second I saw it this morning and was like, dude, and, and man, what that guy's been through, we got to have him on the podcast again. He threw through the cancer that he had in college, going from a super high, you know, an HL hopeful and then having cancer and missing an entire season, maybe even two in college and then battling it out, battling through the coast, battling in the A, signing an NHL deal in the middle of the season with the Bruins after a couple of years in the system and the HL where I was playing with them. Such a great, great guy, such a character guy, couldn't be more happy for somebody because, you know, I got to see him battle through what he had to battle through to stay at the level that he did. And, you know, just amazing, amazing guys. So happy for him. Yeah, so happy for him. So if you want, we had an awesome conversation with them. It was a couple of years ago now, but go back and listen to that one. He's such an inspiring dude. And so cool to see him, you know, get promoted to the HL, which is, which is awesome. Another big coaching hire in the HL, a former teammate of mine at Cornell, Cam Abbott. Cam Abbott just got named the head coach of the Chicago Wolves in the HL, which is Carolina's affiliate program and what a home run hire, holy crap. So a couple of things. Number one, he's been over in Sweden for a long time now and he's been developing some incredible, incredible players in real glow where he was more outsider being one of them, the big D man, who's an absolute stud in in Detroit. And he's had a bunch of other first round picks kind of come through his system. And yeah, he's, he's getting a shot here in the HL and dude, like this guy. So first of all, he's a twin. So Cam and his brother, Chris. So Cam was the head coach in Rogula and his brother, Chris was the GM. And now Chris has moved on to another program in, in the SHL, the Swedish Elite League and Cam's coming over here. And when I say this guy and his brother were two of the best teammates I've ever had, like that's not an understatement at all. Like these guys, our team guys through and through, they, it's funny. Like we had so much talent on our Cornell teams when I first got there and we were such a good team. Like we were number one in the country, my freshman year. And like Cam and Chris, both of them had talent to be a top two line player, but both of them in our, on our team were like third, fourth line guys. And they accepted that. Like we always talk about it, like if you're not playing the role that you are, do the best in the role that you're in, like these guys played the best in the role that they were in. And it's amazing because they were kind of third, fourth line-ish, second maybe, like at Cornell. And then they graduate and they play a year in the Central Hockey League and you know, they, they do really well and then they go over to Norway and they do really well. And then they get over to the Swedish Elite League and they become stars, like absolute stars. And they bought into a role being way more talented than that role was at Cornell. And it's a huge part of the reason why we were so successful. We were deep obviously from a talent perspective, but like we had guys that, that gave a crap about the front of the jersey. And to see him have the success that he's had in the coaching ranks, getting a shot to be able to be one step away from the NHL, you know, you, you just love to see good things happen to good people, especially like good blue collar, hard working dudes. And so I'm just so happy for camera. So happy that he's going to be here in Chicago too, because I'll get to see him a lot. Obviously didn't get the chance to see him much when he was over in Sweden, but I've been in touch with them. He's excited to be over here and yeah, a lot of coaching news, man, a lot of good people getting good jobs. So love it. That's sick. And for those of you who don't know about like European pro hockey, the SHL is disgusting. Yeah, it is such a good league. It is so competitive, hard to get in there, hard to stay, hard to be successful. Obviously he's going to come over here. He's going to slay. Yeah, that's cool. And just the way that him and Chris played like obviously is twins too. It's kind of cool. But like, so they were, they're just workers, man, like they are the most competitive people. And we, we were trying to recruit the Swedish kid once at Cornell and shave actually flew across the Sweden to sit down with him and his mom. And so Doug Murray went to Cornell too. And for those of you who don't know Doug Murray, he played in the NHL for a long time. He played on the Swedish Olympic team. His grandfather is like Swedish hockey royalty. So like he's a big, big, big deal, big dude too. So he's a Cornell alum. He goes over and sits down with his family and he's, and he's kind of like, yeah, and Doug Murray, you know, Doug, he played at Cornell, like Swedish guy, blah, blah. And I guess the kid was kind of like, all right, cool, whatever. And then, and then he goes, and we also have these twins over here, Cameron, Chris Abbott, you know, they, they're Cornell alum too. And they were like, whoa, it was like, what can Cameron, Chris Abbott or like they went to Cornell? And he like lit up, like it was the coolest thing ever. And it's just like the way that they played and the people that they are, they're just like fan favorites. People love them. They wear their heart on their sleeve. They're so competitive and, and yeah, man, just so cool to see people that you're tight with get rewarded for the hard work that they've done. Nothing better. Nothing better. Nothing better. So another great person that you know, Mike Barra, as you mentioned, on this podcast, really, really cool conversation with him and Kevin Mueller, both these guys have been working in youth hockey for a long time. And both of these guys have taken programs. You think about Mike Barra and what he's done in St. Louis. You think about Kevin and Kevin was one of the main coaches in, in Pittsburgh at the Penns Elite program to help elevate both of those programs. And now they've both come to Nashville to, to help build the National Junior Preds program. And they're trying to do things the right way. They're, they're, they're building it, man. They're building it. And it's just really cool to be able to get the chance to sit down with them. I think a lot of people are going to get a lot of, of really good information from these guys. Again, these guys are the epitome of doing things for the right reasons. They really are. And so they have a great track record. They're, they're moral compass is where it needs to be. And I think there's a lot of people that get a lot of this. And before we get over to, to thank it to people, Vex, you want to have a final word here on bears and go from there, man, I'm just wish I could have been there with you guys. I freaking love bears. I love them bears. Listen to this, please come back to St. Louis, bro. I'm excited to listen to this one. I wish you could have been there. Yeah. Yeah. So with that, we have some people to thank before we get over to those guys. First people we want to thank is ice hockey systems.com. The best website out there for all your coaching, education needs guys. I just did a conference with them up in St. Catherine's Ontario a couple of weeks ago. Some unbelievable, unbelievable, just hockey guys. They again, you talk about moral compass doing things for the right reasons. Like they truly, truly have a mission and a vision to help make the game of hockey better. And so they just released a huge series with Daryl Belfry. So Daryl Belfry is the most downloaded podcast that we've ever done. Daryl is a performance coach. He works with guys like, I don't know, Patrick Kane, Austin Matthews, like some, you know, some pretty hockey players. I got to interview him while I was up in St. Catherine's and all that stuff is going on ice hockey systems website. And so go to ice hockey systems.com for a lot of that unbelievable information on top of thousands of drills and whiteboard explanations and a drill drawing tool that is incredible. ice hockey says.com. We have partnered with them to do an associations platform where you can get this for every single coach and parent in your organization, the library or practice plan library for every single coach in your organization, absolute game changer ice hockey systems.com look up the associations platform and get it to day. Jeff free. I want to thank train heroic train heroic is the awesome platform and app that allows me to train so many players, teams, organizations around the country and around the world. If you are not somewhere where you can get with a great strength coach, someone who actually knows how to train hockey players, whether it's in season or off season, I have very, very affordable. My whole goal with this whole online training is to help anybody who cannot afford a legitimate strength coach to help them be the best they can on the ice by way of the gym. Whether that's a team in season, out of season or an individual, please reach out to me. I can help you get set up. It's super, super easy whether you're a team organization or individual and I cannot take train heroic enough. Also want to say thank you to a cure nutrition, cure nutrition to CBD company I'm with. If you talk about this every single episode, I've used CBD twice a day every single day since my last season, 2017, 2018 season. Those of you who are listening to podcasts know about 14 dingers, 14 concussions and taking CBD has definitely helped my brain work better, fire and function faster. Allowed me to stay out of some of the some of the darkness that sometimes people with traumatic brain injuries can get into for sure. I can't say good enough things about it. If you have any questions about CBD in general, not even just train her up, just CBD in general. Please reach out to me always, always, always an advocate for plants over pills anytime I can be. So you can go to truenutrition.com, use my discount code GMBM to save money or please if you have questions, reach out to me. I can talk about the what, when, where, why, how, all that stuff. Love it. I also want to say. Sank. Sank. Sank or thank NHL sense arena. This is an unbelievable virtual reality training game that you can use in your house. We all know that ice time is expensive. We all know that hiring a skills coach is expensive and this is a great way to increase your hockey sense and your hockey IQ without having to leave the house. You got these goggles that you put on, you got these little sensors that you have with your hands and they have over a hundred drills. They're really, really cool platform for both players and for goalies and it's just an unbelievably not only incredible game to increase your hockey IQ and your sense and awareness. But also it's just fun. It's fun as hell. Like if you like playing video games, this is like a video game with a workout and it's actually like making you better too. It's kind of like the whole thing. In Vex, I know you have this in your gym and and use it at times with your guys. So give a little, give a little bit of a bro, it's, it's actually so cool. Like it's wild. I do it with the goalies primarily and it's always really fun when you're not having the headset on and everybody else is watching and when you watch the actual goalies that I train because I train a lot of elite goalies. I have a ton of pro goalies and a ton of college goalies, quite a few junior goalies and when they're doing it, they look so good and it looks like they're actually making saves and then I go in there. I get snipped. I have such a hard time with it but you know, if you can't be on the ice and for goalies, you don't want to be on the ice in the early part of the offseason or if you are on the ice, you want to be doing things where you're not butter flying up, down, up, down, up, down, smoking your hips. You don't want to be practicing the RVH in June if you don't play until September, okay? So ways that you can get better off the ice are really, really important for you, really important for you so that you can save your hips, save your back, save your knees and your ankles sensorina is one of the tools that you can use to stay off the ice and stay sharp. I'm a big proponent of it. Boom. There you go. So go to hockey.sensorina.com and the discount code is going to be in our show notes. There's a lot to it. So the discount code is going to be in your show notes and if you get it, you will get 10% off the annual plan for NHL sensorina sets hockey.sensorina.com use the coupon code that will be in our show notes. And lastly, I want to thank Helios hockey, unbelievable product and service that can help you and your kid, well, mostly your kid, unless you're an adult and you're still playing, but that can help you with your hockey development. So this is a sensor that you put into your shoulder pads and it gives you real time data, real time feedback on things like your stride mechanics, on things like a hustle score, which all the kids absolutely love. They also have the ability to pair up your video, wherever you're doing it, whether it's live barn or your phone or an iPad or a real camera, whatever it may be. And it pairs right with the sensor and you can get your shifts cut up for you right directly after the game, absolute, absolute, absolute game changer. They also have a leaderboard. So you can go in and compete with other kids from around the world that also have Helios hockey. Well, very, very cool on that item as well. So go to helios hockey.com and do the coupon code think tank and you will get 20% off the pro annual subscription. And this guys, this is also a phenomenal product. We've gotten such great feedback from our listeners on Helios hockey. So again, go to helios hockey.com use that coupon code think tank one word and thank you, thank you, thank you so much to all of our amazing, amazing, amazing listeners. You guys are going to get so much out of this episode as we hope we do. We hope that you guys do for every single guest that we bring on here to very, very passionate hockey guys, if you can help us out in any way by liking or commenting or downloading or shooting us a rating or review on Apple podcast or Spotify or wherever you're getting your podcast today, it just helps us a lot to get into more years. And we are mission guys are why you guys know what it is to make a positive impact on the hockey world and the more years that we can get into the more impact we feel like we can have. So if you can share us to your groups and do those things, we would really, really, really appreciate it. And with that, this was a phenomenal conversation. So without further ado, here we go with two guys leading the charge in Nashville with the Nashville Junior Predators, we have Mike Barra and Kevin Mueller. The chase for the Stanley Cup continues and the action at Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NHL is just as hot as it is on the ice. But the same game parlays live betting, odd boosts and so much more, don't miss out as the Stanley Cup playoffs wind down. And if you are new to Draft Kings, you've got to check this out. New customers bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets instantly. Download the Draft Kings Sportsbook app now and use the code THPN. That's code THPN for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets when you bet just $5 only on Draft Kings. The crown is yours gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or in West Virginia, visit www.1-800-Gambler.net. In New York, call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY-467-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Police play responsibly, 21-plus age varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. CDKNG.CO/ICE for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources. Copyright NHL 2024, all rights reserved. We are so excited to have on this episode of the podcast, guys. I'm here live in the flesh in beautiful Nashville, Tennessee, the elite edge hockey camp with Mike Barra, second time on the podcast and Kevin Mueller, boys. What is going on today? It's October. It's over. It's over. Good to see you again. This is going to be probably one of the best podcasts we've done because I don't have Jeff LeVecchio on here to steer things in the wrong direction. Kevin has his shirt off though, so he looks just like that. I think we'll be okay. You guys are watching an office episode where Michael's not in, but Dwight has a tape recorder to tape everything that's going on, and then everybody's like, "Dwight, put your pants back on it. Let the record show that my pants are on." And so is Kevin's shirt, so we're good. We're good. I like it. You can hold your mic up. That's... There you go. Okay, so number two for you here, Mike. Number one for you here, Kev, which is kind of weird. I feel like I should have had you on a long time ago, but that's okay. But if you can, just tell us a little bit about what your hockey background is. Mike, we'll start with you, St. Louis guy, coach with Vex. Yes, and probably my claim to fame is coaching with Vex, but no, obviously, coach in St. Louis for a long time got to work with some awesome people and coach some great kids, and that kind of catapulted me to coaching the USHL with the Sioux City Musketeers. Coach there, did player development there, won a Clark Cup championship there, which was unbelievable. And kind of Nashville came calling, have a beautiful wife and kiddo at home, and just thought it was the best fit for the family, and move the fam here, and it's been unbelievable. The junior preds run a... Just a great organization here, and TPH hockey here in Nashville is just booming, so just really fortunate to be here. Love it. Kev? Yeah, grew up in Southeastern Wisconsin and played some hockey, AAA hockey there, played for Bob Souter in Madison, then moved up to Warroad, Minnesota, played up there, went to Division III right out of high school, played for Bethel College in St. Paul, Minnesota, got involved coaching right away, kind of by chance, coached a AA program in Wisconsin for about nine years, and then moved up to the junior admirals for five or six years, and went out to Pittsburgh with the Penns Elite for the last seven years, and kind of reconnected with Mike a little bit while we were on the road, and it's just a good opportunity came up here, so excited to be in Nashville. This town is my favorite town in the world, like my favorite. I hear it's here for the draft last year, it's my first time being down here, and then got the chances my second time this summer being down here, and I might not leave. This place is amazing. I mean, they call it Nash Vegas, but I think it's like Vegas, too, so when you're, when you're local, you just don't go to Broadway, you stay away from it, but I think when you come in town, you have to go to Broadway, so, but no, it is, it's an awesome town. Unbelievable, and the Preds, when the Preds are doing well, I have to imagine like this place is not hockey wise. It's pretty special. I mean, my wife is from a small town in Illinois, and so she's not overly familiar with hockey, and she goes to Preds games, and she just loves it, because it is just, it's wild. And, you know, it's, it's a pretty, like I said, it's a special place, and the Preds do a great job with just everything, and it just, that place is rocking. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Well, let's say it into some hockey talk, and, Kev, I'm going to start with you, because one of the stops that you were in is one of my favorite places ever. Former teammate is a head coach of their high school hockey team there, and that's World Minnesota. Shout out to Jay Hardwick. Sure. So World is kind of like the epitome of what community hockey is, right? It's almost like everybody's got access to the rink whenever they want. You know, they do a great job at developing players. You know, you see kids from World going on to play at higher levels all the time. Talk about your experience there. Like, what was living in World like back in the day? It was fun. I actually moved there. We had family in Northern Minnesota, so it wasn't always maybe the warmest welcome initially when I got there, but what you really learn when you get there is just how hard-working all those kids are, and how hard-working and blue-collar all those families are. And it just, it forces you to a different level. And like you say, you have access to so many resources while you're there. You can, you know, I can either confirm or deny we hit from the police a couple of times overnight skating, but, you know, like that type of stuff was just kind of what you did there. And you worked, and you trained, and you got up early, and you went out to the football field, and you did playoffs, and you did sprints, and, you know, obviously some amazing hockey talent and hockey minds coming through there, played for Carrie Eads, who's the GMFargo. He was the head coach that when I was there, and, you know, just an amazing hockey mind on real competitor. And he just really kind of embraced, for me, what the mentality was there. And that's that compete, that work ethic, that grind it out, and, you know, be the best you that you can be. Love that. That's awesome. And I feel like obviously hockey has changed a lot, and the community model is not probably the most prominent model anywhere outside of probably Minnesota, and maybe some other spots in some other states, but for the most part, and like, how do you, how do we get that in the model that we have right now? Like the one thing that you talked about was like everybody was like hardworking, it was blue collar type stuff, and like, that's not necessarily where hockey culture is at right now. So like, how do we, and how do you guys specifically, you guys are here in Nashville running the program, how do you try to instill some of those community lessons, life lessons, and not even even like go further to say that like that helps you become a much better hockey player too, in this kind of business-y type landscape that we live in in youth hockey. Yeah. So it's a challenge. I think the number one thing that you have to do is you have to create an environment where people realize you care about them, and you care about their kids, their family and their journey, so that you're able to hold them accountable when things go sideways, when they're not working hard, when they're not settling to be their best version of the game. So what does that mean? So let me challenge, not challenge you, but let me, I want to, I want you to expand on that. Like, because I'm on this kick right now, and I've said in a lot of podcasts recently, like there's a very big difference between like telling people that you care and them actually thinking that you care and actually like doing the work necessary. So like, what are some things that you've done or what are some of the things that you've seen that like, you know, where people will be like, yeah, they do care about us. I know for me, the big thing is just being accessible, being around communicating, you know, and I've, I've had seasons where I didn't do a good job communicating and I've tried to build on it and every, every year I go through it. And, you know, just showing that you care about them beyond the rink and having conversations with them about things that are not just hockey, right? Where you're talking about them like, you know, what's your dog's name, whatever it might be, something to create a relationship, and just a genuine interaction with them as human beings is your first main start because then now you've created something that goes beyond the rink. Now they know that if I'm going to be hard on you, it's because I care. It's not, you know, I'm not attacking you personally. I'm, you know, I'm attacking an action, nothing more. And I expect more out of you. I know there's more in there. And that's, I think our job as hockey coaches and leaders is to, you know, challenge their own comfort zones for athletes. And how much of that, like, you talk about that with like the players, right? Like be able to coach from hard building, but is that important for the parents too? Like, is that, is that something you feel like as a coach, as a youth hockey director, you got to be like accessible to the parents and almost very similar to how you just talk about with the players? Yeah. Very much so. I mean, it's a matter of when there's big events going on, you're around. You're saying, hi, if it's not your team, for example, I'm coaching the 18s. If Mike's team, he's coaching the 16s this year, if the 16s are around, I need to be around and say hello to families and interact with them because in those one on one conversations, you're going to learn a heck of a lot more than you would just waiting for an email to come through. Yeah. And Mike, I know you're big on this stuff too. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I think Kevin really hit nail in the head when he said relationships. You have to build relationships with your players. You have to build relationships with their parents. You have to make sure that they know that you're invested in them for the right reasons. And that's something that takes time. It's not something that, you know, you need to walk into a room and demand it. You have to earn that respect and you have to earn that relationship. And you just, you know, at the end of the day, like these kids and these parents need to know that you're in it for them and you're not in it for yourself. And I think that's just the biggest message that I try to put across to all of our kids is guys like, look, I would love to go undefeated. I'm a competitor. I love to win. But at the end of the day, like my job and my role here is to make you a better person is to make sure that I'm making you a better player. And this is what we're going to do to get there. But I just, you have to build those relationships. The players and the parents need to know that you care and that you're in it for the right reasons. And I think if you do those things and you stay true to yourself, I think, you know, the end goal is inevitable. Yeah. So let's talk about it more from like a macro perspective now. Like what you guys are talking about is very relevant to like your team per se. And Kev, you talked a little bit about, hey, the 18s and the 16s and stuff like that. But like one of the things that I see and I talk about a lot with the organizations that we work with is like, hey, let's not be an organization where each team's on an island and do things their own way. Let's have an organization where we're working together and people care about the thing that's at the front of the chest, you know, where this youth, not just you talking about this youth sports culture that we're in and even in academia and all these other stuff that kids are involved. Like it's such a me, me, me, how can you get me to the next spot, you know, type of mentality where if you want to be great at anything you do, it takes people helping you and it takes this community like the whole it takes a village dot dot dot is a real thing. And so like take it a little bit further and like how do you develop that community type atmosphere within an entire organization? I mean, you guys both are working here in Nashville for the junior preds and I've done a great job. Well, not you yet. You just got here. I've heard the first couple months have been phenomenal, but like how do you kind of help to create that culture just in general, that community feel within like the whole organization? It's funny you say culture. So if we've actually done a lot of digging in here in Nashville recently, just kind of like what is culture, right? I think culture is really that that buzzword that is out there right now, like how do you build one? How do you develop? Does it become like obsolete? It means nothing anymore because everybody uses it. Yeah. And I was talking to one of our younger coaches the other day and it's like like what is culture? Like what is our culture? And my answer to him was culture is a lifestyle. I think culture is how you go about your life as an individual and like your approach every single day you show up to the rink. Like I said, it goes into the relationship piece. It goes into small things like are you holding a door open for somebody? If you see a piece of trash sitting on the ground, are you picking up or are you walking over it? We talked about a toe of like how you do anything is how you do everything. One of my mentors in the game of hockey, Luke Strand, like the person makes the player. I mean, there's all these things that you hear along the way and I think it's our job is coaches, our job is people who have an impact on youth hockey players every day is just to be great role models for people and to make sure that we're doing that in our actions every single day. Cotton on top, baby. Cotton on top, the Vex way, what do they catch? You know, I think for us, it's about setting the standard and that's the standard that we want to operate as a staff, you know, professionally. It's about setting the standards for the kids to operate at and Mike alluded to it how you do anything is how you do everything. It's something I've said for years and it was kind of funny to hear him throw that phrase out the other day when we were on that call and it really is about then holding them to those standards and making sure that the little stuffs, the details are taken care of and, you know, we don't control a whole heck of a lot once the puck drops. Neither do the players. A lot of the games outside their control, the way a puck bounces a call you get, you know, fill in the blank, your equipment fails, your stick breaks, but we do control our attitude around it and we control how we respond to whatever happens and, you know, so one of the first things that I'm trying to do here is really just talk to all the coaches and get an understanding and try to help set the tone for, hey, I've done this for 20 years. Here's some things that have really helped and when I've had the most success, these are some things that have been super helpful and at the same time being very open to hearing what some of our younger coaches have to say because it's a different generation, you know, I'm 42 and, you know, some of our younger coaches are in their 20s and it doesn't mean that their input's not valuable. It's about listening to them and then they feel part of the process and if they feel part of the process, they can hopefully convey that passion to their families, to their players, to their athletes and that's, I think, how you start to build that, again, whatever the word means at this point, that culture, but that, you know, that feeling of belonging to something and the feeling of knowing, you know, we talk about it once a bit here is we want to, we want you to know that if you're going to watch the Junior Preds play, you're going to know what you're going to get, you're going to get a team that's, you don't have to worry about them, trash in a locker room, you don't have to worry about them, you know, misbehaving, doing stuff like that. We want the perception of our players to be that they're professionals, they're young professionals. They're still kids, they're going to make mistakes. Part of the process, our job is to help them through those mistakes, but we want something that's consistent. We want there to be a standard for these kids. Can you expand a little bit on what you mean by professionals? Because I can see some people hearing that and being like, whoa, what do you mean professionals? Like, and you did to help with their kids, but like, so just explain, because I know what you mean, but I want to make sure that everybody, you know, that listens knows what you mean to. Yeah. Professional from the standpoint of, you know, they're going to look good when they walk in the rink there and doesn't mean that the young kids have to be wearing suits necessarily, but it means that they should look good. They should look presentable. They should look, you know, like well respected members of society and it means that they're not going to be slamming their sticks and screaming and, you know, causing havoc when they get a call against them. It's just really about having a baseline standard for their general actions. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to clarify there. Oh, so it should be being paid and, you know, we're just paying our 12 year old's years. That's great. There were suits, all that good stuff. I like it. Well, that's cool, man. So one of the things I wanted to talk to you guys about, so knowing both of you and Vex, having heard him talk a lot about you and when you guys were coaching together, both of you are very prepared people, very detail oriented people as coaches. And that is something that I think goes a long way. Like if you want to be a good coach, like you got to be detailed and you have to have a plan and follow through on those kinds of things. So Mike, I'll start with you, man, like how, I don't know, like why is being prepared important? And what are some things that you do, like whether it's planning a season, whether it's planning a practice that you think the youth coaches that listen to this podcast can maybe use to help them be a better coach? Well, I think I mentioned it till the last time we spoke is like when you're prepared, I think that gives your players confidence. I think it should give you confidence as a coach that when your team steps foot on the ice, talk a little bit about like the players getting confidence with you being prepared and what that means. Well, I just, I think when they go into a game, like they shouldn't be shell shocked or they shouldn't look at it and go, like, gosh, I don't know what to expect. You know, I think that for me, how I go about, you know, our day-to-day approach is, you know, whether it's, you know, pre scouts and kind of showing them a couple tendencies another team does or whether it's in practice, like putting them in situations where frankly they're getting comfortable being uncomfortable. But like they're not going to step foot on the ice and not know, you know, what the plan for practice is that day. They're not going to step foot on the ice against an opponent and like, oh, wow, like I've never seen that face off play. And I always joke with Kevin, like he's got a hundred of them and so it might be a little bit harder with against some coaches. But I think when, you know, your team knows that you're invested in them and that they know that, you know, as a coach, you're doing everything you can to get them ready for a game. I think when they step foot on the ice, then the game hockey just breaks out and they can just play and they can play with freedom. And I think when players do that, they're playing with confidence and, you know, when players play with confidence, like you're getting their very best and doesn't mean they're not going to make a mistake. Like those are, you know, parts of the game that you can't really, you can't have any control over, but they're not making a mistake because they're not prepared. They're making a mistake because mistakes are a part of life. So I just think if as much as we can do to give our players confidence and try to build that, that up as much as we can, I think that's our job as coaches and role models for these kids. Yeah. And that confidence comes from your confidence as a coach. And your confidence as a coach comes from being prepared. Exactly. There we go. At the end of the day, it goes back to setting the standards for these kids and, you know, leadership is inherently incongruent if you are not prepared and you are not holding yourself to the same standard. So if I come out to the ice and I'm not prepared for something for a practice that we're running, how can I expect the kids to be young professionals after you put me on blast for using that word? But to conduct themselves accordingly and to push themselves into set their own standards with it. So I've got to make sure that I'm prepared as a coach when I hit the ice and that gives the kids confidence in their leadership. And once they're confident in the leadership, like Mike said, then magic things start to happen. They'll go through it all for you and they'll change their attitude, they'll change their work ethic and approach. And, you know, I think the planning has to go beyond the practice level. I think a lot of times we get too caught up in what are we doing today, Monday? What are we doing today, you know, tomorrow, Tuesday? And I think you have to take a step back before the season starts and really look at who do you think you have as a group coming in? And once you have your group and you understand who they are, at least to some degree, you got to put together a season plan. And if you break that season into a new hockey, I always find like kind of two month chunks tends to work well because you usually have a couple off weekends in there where you can regroup, reevaluate, but it gives you a starting point and that plan, I think one thing people get in the habit of is they make this plan and they feel like they have to stick to it versus just understanding your season plan is a set of guidelines and it's a living breathing thing and it probably will and probably should change after you finish your first segment of it. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So like you talk about a season plan for all the, again, for all the coaches that are listening to youth coaches, like what does that entail? Like you're sitting around before the season and you're mapping things out in your head and you're getting it down on paper and you're then you're putting some things together to give to your players and stuff like that. Maybe Mike, I'll start with you. Like what are some things that you have in mind when you're planning your season that can help coaches to kind of put something together before they go? Yeah. I mean, I think like Kevin said, I mean, things are always evolving and they're always changing, but I think the most important thing is just to try to figure out what you have amongst your group. And I think that there's guidelines, you know, that, you know, I specifically try to put in place and I think it always starts with the work side of things is guys, like we've got to be a team that shows up to the rink every single day and they, we put forth 100% effort. And if you guys work hard and you have fun doing it, like, okay, now we have our baseline and we know where we're at. And I think when you start from there and when your team really buys into those concepts, like everything else almost becomes easy, you know, like we can draw up all these cool four checks or these own coverages and that's obviously important in the game of hockey. But I think the true buy-in comes from just understanding like if you show up to the rink ready to work and you show up to the rink prepared and you show up to the rink with a purpose and with intent to get better, I really feel like all that other stuff really just kind of takes care of itself. Yeah. How about you, Kevin? I always try to put my plan together in multiple segments. So I have kind of a culture leadership phase of it or element of it. I have a skill element of it and then I have a, you know, team concept element. And I think you have to pay attention to especially where they're at in terms of, you know, leadership and obviously that's a very different dynamic if you're working with a 12-year-old than an 18-year-old. But as you start to do that, really phase one to me is always about how do you, how do you set the expectations, how do you set the tempo that we're going to practice at, how do you set the tempo we're going to play at, how do you start to implement the pieces that allow you to make sure you have that standard within your locker room, whether it's caring for your locker room, whether it's, you know, again, just how you interact in public, whether it's, you know, doing a community service event, something like that that starts to look beyond just the four walls of the rink. And that gives you your guide post and that gives you your ability to say like, wow, we have a lot of work to do with this group off the ice before we worry a whole heck of a lot about the on-eye stuff. And then when it comes to team building site, I think you have to look at it. We get caught up a lot in looking at it from a strictly systematic approach, even with the teams, but I think we have to take a look at it and say what skills are we lacking in order to implement the competitive structure that we're trying to implement. Well, there's the million dollar question. How do you take individual skill and morph that into team concept type stuff? Like I think the best coaches and the best skills coaches have a unique ability to understand the nuances of the individual skill and how it relates into the team structure, the team game. So like what are some things that you do or how can coaches approach maybe a practice plan or approach a development plan to merge the two? So the skills are actually transferring from the practice to the game or the skill session to the game. Yeah, I think it depends a lot on the age level. I'll take the probably most clear example and that would be 13. So 13s are entering checking and one of the most undertaught in my opinion skills is checking and angling. Well, what a great time to implement that into a start of a drill or what a great time to implement that sort of for check and that type of pressure and body contact into a regroup. So you have these opportunities when you start to drill rather than just thinking of it starting from a line on the hash marks every time, maybe it starts different, maybe it starts with the battle, you know, last time we were together, you talked about starting stuff with a race, you know, and that's, that's another great way, something that's a little bit more dynamic, but then incorporates a skill that you're needing to work on. If you're, if you need to work on passing, why can't every drill start with, you know, two touches a give and go and return a puck and then start your pattern or whatever it might be. So I think there's lots of little opportunities to build the skill development and not turn it into just, you know, four lines on the goal line, down and back, down and back, down and back. Yeah. We got the peanut gallery, Teddy, Teddy over there trying to figure life out. And Michael, I know you're huge in player development as well. I want to clerk up with, with Sioux City and that was a big part of your job there. So I guess same question, like thinking about the individual skill and making your players better while also having this job to do with the team, you know, to make sure you're on the same page. How do you go about your process of, of blending those? Yeah. I mean, I think a big part of when I was doing player development in Sioux City was getting a really good understanding of what the coaches were teaching the players in regards to like what structure, what kind of things they were doing from a routing perspective and then making sure I built that into, you know, my plans from an individual development standpoint. So for me, it was whether it was hand position, hand positioning on receiving a puck like body positioning on, you know, being able to get a shot off a little bit quicker in the slot, like small little nuances of the game, I think go a super long way. So I think it's just one of those things where you just, you have to find a way to just do the blended skill approach with it. You know, I think Kevin made a great point, like, you know, 13 years old, like probably the most anxiety parents get is when checking starts becoming part of the game. So how do you get them comfortable with getting jacked? Well, probably getting jacked, like that's like the, you know, that was always the question I was asked when I was coaching first year jacking, like, how are you going to teach jacking? And it's like, well, I can teach them all I want. But honestly, the number one way to not get jacked is play with your head up. You know, so it's just those small little things and, you know, for a D, like you're going back to, you know, execute a breakout. What's the first thing you should be doing as a defenseman? Probably scanning and shoulder checking. And so like building those small little things in and those small little details will go a long way. And then what's the next thing? Well, you probably need to pop your top hand and, you know, add a little bit of deception to your path. The middle, maybe your eyes are looking wall and you're ditching to the middle of the ice. And so I think that from a development side of things, it's, you know, it's the approach of like what small little habits, what small little details can we throw into this? And then from the big picture kind of things is look like at the end of the day, like the game of hockey is it's hard, but it's also simple. Like you have to be able to skate, shoot and pass. Simple, but not easy. Yeah. Oh, exactly. Everything in life is simple, but not easy. Yeah. So I mean, it is, it's a complicated game, but at the other side of it doesn't have to be that complicated. Just focus on those core skills and then build your approach around it. I feel like a lot of that. And I think NARA was really good at this at Michigan is like the explanation of the why of a drill and then like the communication about what you're trying to get out of it, whether it's a little habit, like you talked about like getting your body around on a shot or, you know, getting hands and when you're angry, whatever it may be. Like as a coach, we shouldn't be just like going up to a board before practice or before a drill and just drawing up the drill and saying, go do it. No, it's like, here's the drill. This is why we're doing it and here are the one or two things, the one or two habits that I want you to work on. Like maybe it's a skill drill at the beginning, you know, where we're warming up the goalies, but I want you to do a two touch shot, right? You're getting a puck, boom, boom off your stick, or we want you to work on deception on your crossovers as you're coming up the ice when you get the puck at the blue line and come at whatever it may be. Like there's got to be some rhyme or reason, development aspect perspective that you have and communicating that clearly to the players beforehand. So they understand what they're working on, why they're doing it instead of just like there's got to be intention to it, right? There's got to be some kind of intention to it. Well, I think it's a great point, though, if like you have to engage the players and I feel like when you give those explanations, it engages them like the kids nowadays they want to know the why and they and they should want to know it, you know, and then, you know, like we start of, you know, we might start to practice off with the most simple drill in the world, Hylo, and the players are like, coach, like, what are we trying to get out of this drill? And I was like, guys, that's a great question. You're moving your feet like you're shooting and stride and you're stopping at the net. Like that's the job of the drill. Like is it complicated? No. Are you making any passes? No. Like your job is literally to like skate and shoot, like that's it. And they're like, okay, and I was like, and then stop the net and it's that simple. And they're like, wow, okay. And then you give them three things and then, okay, now we can maybe add a pass to it. And then maybe you can add an extra part, you know, part to the drill later on. Like, but I think you have to start with the simplicity side of it and then you just continue to build and build and build. But I think when you tell them the why, it engages them and we go back to the word confidence and all that, like confident players are going to be engaged, like confident players are going to know the why behind everything. And I think it's our job as coaches is not to just draw lines on a board. It's to make sure that like players know that there's a purpose behind what we're doing. Yeah. Well, let's talk about that word engaged because that is it's one where and I got done, you know, speaking to a lot of kids here at this, this, this camp that we're at down here in Nashville. And it's really funny, like I was telling, or I was talking to a couple of other coaches and I can tell, and this is for more for the kids than anything else, like I can tell as I'm giving a presentation to a group of kids, like which ones are the workers and which ones are the ones that I know, you know, I bet you I can peg the top five and the bottom five kids in terms of what their work ethic is going to be on the ice based on like what I'm seeing in a presentation. And so like talk a little bit about just like, you know, we talk a lot about the coaching side and we got to try to get kids to be engaged in one of some things we've talked about already that we can do to help them do that. But at the end of the day, as a coach, you can lead a kid to water, but they still got to drink the water. What's the saying? You lead a horse to water, but they still got to drink it or whatever. So like in your guys's experiences, you guys have been in this for a long time and worked with probably thousands of kids between the two of you guys like how much of the response abilities on the kid, you know, like here we are, we want to be better. We want to coach them, but like how much of the responsibility is legit on the kid and maybe on top of that, not just the kid, but like the family, you know, like how much of that is it? Yeah, usually you find when a kid is truly disengaged, there is some sort of disengagement from the family level, where either they haven't been held accountable, they've never been told no fill in the blank, whatever it might be. You know, some of it, I think this is where it actually is kind of fun as a coach for me is the there's kids that appear disengaged and it's simply because we're not speaking their language. We're not, we're not putting it in a way that translates to that person in particular. Yeah. And that's the fun of coaching is I don't want to coach 20 of the same kids. I don't. That's boring, right? Because then it's the same message over and over and over again. I want to figure out who I can say this to to get them motivated. I want to see who's going to respond to this type of reaction that I think is where the real magic is in terms of being able to relate to these kids and push them and get them engaged. I think a lot of the responsibilities on us, I think like anything in life, there's no formula that's going to be 100% successful 100% of the time. Yeah. What about you? I mean, Toph, I think it goes back to just like, I think obviously like from a parent player standpoint, I think that I see it way too often, like a player comes to the rank and the coach comes to the rank and it's like the coach's job to be here. And there's a great clip. I literally have played it 100 times and shown Kevin probably 20 times since he's been here. It's like an Ernie Johnson clip when, you know, he spoke to the University of Alabama football team. Oh, if you, if for all the listeners, if you haven't seen that on you, like go watch that, not if you're driving right now, but when you get home, like I'm a almost 40 year old man and I almost, I, I shut it here every single time I watch it. It's amazing. Go ahead. Sorry. But I look at it very similar to that Toph, to be honest with you, like I, I get to come to the rank every day, like I'm so excited when I get to come to the rank, like this morning we got to work with a really good group of players and this little, you know, city over here, Antioch and I was excited, like you walk into a rink at 6 a.m. and you got a fresh sheet of ice. Like it's, there's something poetic about it almost and I think that the beauty of what we have here in Nashville with Kevin and loud and Teddy back there is a, there's, we don't look at this as a, as a job, like we get to come to the rink every single day and, and we love coming to the rink every single day and I think like as coaches, like if you could just show the passion that you have and the love that you have for the game, I find it hard to believe that you're going to have a lot of disengaged kids. I just think that kids will just, you know, maybe it takes time with some and like Kevin said, maybe it's a language thing and, or maybe kids might look at you and go, why are you so excited to be on the ice right now and give you a look like you're losing your mind and maybe I am sometimes, but I think if you have that energy come to the rink, you have that excitement come to the rink, it's contagious and I think that your teams will, will just, you know, continue to build off it. I love that. I love the fact that both of you guys, I asked you the question about the kids and you brought it back to like, no, it's my job and all it's my job to create the environment and get to know the kid and, and create it where yeah, like if I'm showing this stuff, again, caught not taught, like if I'm showing this stuff, the kids have permission to, to do it too. It's all in your control. I love that. So, let me ask you this, let me, I don't want to say devil's advocate, but it's impossible. Well, maybe it's not for you, I don't know, but I love the game more than anything in the world outside of like my kids and my wife and my family. But there are days where it's a grind. There are days where it's like, it's not necessarily I don't want to go to the rink today because you want to go to the rink, but it's like, oh my God, like I got to put a face on like I, you know, my kids sick and I've been doing this and that and that's, that's the reality of life. And that's what everybody goes through. It's, you know, not a hunky dory, everything is great. So like for you guys passionate about this on the days that maybe you don't feel like you have your hundred, but you know you got to try as best as you can to get to that for the kids that are there. How do you navigate that? Like how do you, how do you figure out how to bring your best when you don't have that? They're called the Venti Americanos, you get them at Starbucks. No, that's, it's a great question Toph, like I, I don't know. I think that you do just have to put on the face. Like you said, you have to leave it at the door and as soon as you, you know, open the door and you're walking to the rink, like you have, you know, 20, 30, 40 kids that are relying on you to teach them that day to help them that day. And so it's one of those things where, yeah, it is hard sometimes like life happens and some things in life stink, but at the end of the day, you can't show the kids because you can't make your bad day their bad day. And so I don't know what the technique is. I'm sure I haven't always been Mr. Smiley or anything on the ice some days. I know that, but I just think for me, it's just, you've just got to remind yourself over and over it's, hey, look like I am having a bad day, but it's not these kids fault that I'm having a bad day. So I need to make sure that I refocus myself and for the next hour, two hours, three hours, however long it is, like just keep reminding yourself you're there for the kids. I think the other side of it too is if you've done a good job creating the relationships with the kids and creating that, that environment, then that environment can help pull you out of it too. And that's a two way street, that's not just a coach to player, it becomes a player to coach, it becomes an interactive process. So I found that the times where we've done the best job as a coaching staff building, that type of environment with the kids, they're the easiest ones to get out of bad days because like you say, something's going to happen and you're going to be off. And I think more importantly is bringing that human element back to it. And if you have a bad day the next day or even at the end of the session, admit it. Let them know you're human, you know, we're not, we're not perfect. We do have bad days and sometimes we don't bring the energy we need. We don't bring the focus we need, same as the players. But when you own it, then you also show the players that, hey, I've owned, I'm accountable for not being here and being present today and being the best version of me. Now you need to do that and it's okay for you to go through that same up and down as a player. Yeah. It's so cool to have these kinds of conversations and just get different perspectives on things because both of you had similar-ish answers but also different answers. And I would even have maybe a different answer to you guys where like I almost, if I came to the rink and I'm having a crap day, like it's, it's a bad day. You know, I'm probably going and I'm like, boys, I need you today. I need you today. I'm in one. I'm absolutely in one. And hey, like I'm going to do my best. I'm going to try my hardest. I'm probably not going to be very good today, my mind's in other places. But like, hey, let's have a great practice and you guys pick me up here, you know, and just be vulnerable almost to a point where like, and it almost gives them permission too to be like, hey, you know, and it creates that like, again, community kind of atmosphere. It's like, hey, we'll pick you up, coach or if somebody else is having a bad day, it's like, hey, we got you, buddy. We got you. I mean, I love that, Toph. I love Kevin's answer. I think that when you do take ownership of just kind of being a human, I think that you know, your players will feed off that stuff. I think it's, I think it's great. I think it's, it's okay to, you know, show your team that you're not perfect and you do have bad days and, you know, that's a good thing. And I think it, you know, goes back to, you know, if you, you know, maybe your team had a bad day, but it's okay to maybe sometimes go in the locker room and go, guys, like, you guys weren't good and you know what, neither was, you know, neither was I and like, I can be better. You guys can be better. You know, let's be better together. And I think that when you do that with a group and I, like I said, I loved both your guys's answers. I think that, you know, the team takes care of itself. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Okay. Shifting gears a little bit here because I want to make sure we get to something because I get emails quite a bit from coaches, particularly or program directors from non-traditional markets. That struggle. They're trying to figure out how to get more people in their program. They're trying to figure out how to have a plan for everybody. And there's a lot of different, I don't want to say issues, but there's a lot of different difficulties that come with being a smaller market and trying to figure out how to do this youth hockey thing in the best way that you can, right? And so, you know, Kev, you're in Pittsburgh for a long time. At the time it was a little bit more of a non-traditional market. You've been in St. Louis at the time, maybe use a little bit more of a non-traditional market. Here we are in Nashville. We're kind of similar. We're like, it's almost not there, but it's still a bit of a non-traditional market. So, like, if you guys had any advice for a program director or a coach or somebody going through it in a spot that maybe doesn't have an NHL team or you're struggling with numbers, hockey's not, you know, it might not even be the third or fourth most important sport in the town. Maybe it's fifth or sixth. What advice would you have for some people that are maybe in that market? It's tough, Toph. I mean, I saw it my years in St. Louis, and obviously we see it here in Nashville, too. But I think it just, it goes back to you can't really get wrapped up on what somebody's doing or where someone might be going or why they might be going there. I think you just kind of stay true to who you are as a coach, who you are as an organization, and, you know, make sure that you're doing things for the right reason. I think that if you do those things long-term, like, yeah, you might lose a player or two along the way or somebody might think the grass is greener on the other side. But you can't get involved in those games and try to do something that you're not comfortable with. Just be yourself and, you know, stick with it. And at the end of the day, like, just keep on reminding yourself, like, why you do it. And if you lose a player because they think going to another organization is the best option for them, then you wish them luck and, you know, it just opens up another opportunity for someone else to come in and play for you. So have you seen, like, a lot of organizations in that sense kind of, like, bend and twist who they are and what they do to placate a couple of people who are, like, hey, you know, the grass is greener unless you do X, Y, or C or something like that? I mean, I've seen that in very traditional hockey markets. Is that kind of what you're saying? Like, just stay true to who you are, like, have your plan and do it and don't worry about the things that you can't control? You have to. I mean, it's just, there's so many factors in youth hockey now that you just, you can't control. And so for us, you know, especially here in Nashville, we talk about it all the time and it's, we are a little bit of a non-traditional hockey market and it's a market that's continued to grow, but it's not going to continue to grow if we go off and, you know, go off our agenda and, like, just try to focus on something else. Like, we need to focus on, you know, what makes the Nashville junior predators great and we have to stay true to our values and we can't steer away from it because I think when you start steering away from it, like, that's when things get really gray and just get in an area that you just aren't comfortable with. Yeah. So you just have to, you said, it sounds a lot simpler than what it is, but I think if you just, you have a vision in mind and you have a long-term vision, you just got to stay true to it. Yeah. What would you say, Kev? Same thing. I think you have to make sure that the families in your market really start to understand the process, you know, as, as hockey guys, we've been through it. We've lived it. We've seen it, you know, again, over 20 years, we've watched different, uh, different scenarios play out, you know, tens of hundreds of times and if we do a good job educating our families on the process, what they're going to go through, you know, when they're 13, here's the ups and downs that you're going to see at 13 only. You're going to see checking. So you got kids that are prepubescent, kids that are full, you know, gone through puberty, have a mustache. It's okay. Great mustache. But if we do a good job educating the families, they feel a part of it. And at the end of the day, they're going to be our biggest proponents and they're going to be our biggest speakers within the community to help build that message because no matter how hard we try, we're not going to have the same audience as the big prads will. They're going to be able to reach in terms of the blanket, the market, right? Show up on TV every day. But what we have is, you know, a few hundred families who have neighbors and who hopefully maybe their neighbors have kids that are the same age as their kids and they want to go play street hockey. And they're like, hey, what is, I see you're always lugging your hockey gear. What's going on? If those families that are within our program now understand the process, the ups and downs, what we're trying to do, again, the ultimate goal of the program, you know, we're going to create raving fan customers. And I stole that from someone. I don't. And I believe is raising raving fans. It's a good book. Good book. Good book. Is it Dr. Ken Rivers that wrote that book? Oh, I can't. I don't know. We'll have to look that up. Yeah. Yeah. Shoot. That is a really good book. A professor of mine at Cornell actually gave that to me, said it was part of an independent study project. And it was like really, really good. But just to kind of go along what you guys are saying, not traditional market, just create a frickin unbelievable product, you know, like create an unbelievable product in the organic growth through word of mouth through, hey, like what we're doing. What these guys are doing over here is incredible. Like you got to be a part of it, you know, my family's having a great time. My kids love it. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like that's the secret sauce, huh? I mean, just and just having good people. Yeah. I mean, I think just, I think your motto, um, tote when you're at Michigan was good dudes only. Good do so. I love that. It's not my motto. It's not his motto. Yeah. I'm not his motto, you know, but teams. I just, I thought it was, I thought that was awesome. It was direct and that's just, that's what it's all about. You just got to have good people around you and, um, you know, I can honestly say like we have a great group here in Nashville right now and so it makes life really easy on all of us because it's good people. People helping people. Yep. Sort of excess all the time. People help people. I've heard that a few times. Yeah. I'm sure. Uh, awesome guys. Well, this was, this was phenomenal. We appreciate you guys' time and input. It's great to do this in person. And neither of these guys knew that they were doing this until today. So they hopped on. It's perfect. We miss Vex. We do. We gave him some, some crap at the beginning, but maybe, maybe this is not as entertaining. Maybe. What do you guys think? We miss the goofball. Yeah. I mean, I, I miss Vex every day, so, um, that's, is one of a kind. That's for sure. The toothless male model, tatted, J who dude. Yes. Sir energy. Yeah. Well, hold on for just a second guys. We're going to do a 10 questions with you. Um, so this is going to be housed on our hockey think tank Facebook community. And so if you have not subscribed to that yet, go to community.thehockeythinktank.com. And you'll get access to these 10 questions with Kev and Mike and all the other guests that we've had, but phenomenal info. It's great to see you guys. Uh, I should give a shout out to this camp too. This camp is unbelievable. It's a good edge hockey camp, Brandon Walker puts it together. Um, it's become, I think this is your 19 is what he said. Yeah. You're 19 and like all the college coaches, like when I was coaching and college, they're all like, we got to get to this camp. Like we got to go work this camp. It's phenomenal. Not only is it Nashville, but like he does such a good job of, um, just running a tight ship and everybody here's having fun. Like everybody here is learning like this is a great thing about coaching too. Like you get access to all these coaches and learn new things and, and you know what's really cool too is like, I feel like it's changed where I used to be one of the younger coaches. And now I feel like I'm part of the old guard and it's so cool, honestly, to see some of these younger guys who are so driven and so passionate and so like eager to, to work and learn and, you know, the older you get, sometimes you can get a little bit more jaded with things like that and a little bit set and to see their energy and their love for like the passion of coaching has been really cool being around here. I don't know if you guys feel the same way, but it's incredible. Like, Toph, like we took it, took a picture yesterday with, you know, Ike's ire and Ike played for me in St. Louis and played for Vex too. Yeah. Yeah. Like now he's coaching with me. And so it's just, um, it's so cool to see that and just the passion that these young guys have and said like, I'm getting old, but these guys actually like they, they make you feel young again because they're just, they just love it. They really do. It's really, really cool. Really cool. I mean, the elder statesman here, you're, you're kind of like, thanks Tophie. Yeah. You know, I think it's really cool. There's definitely more energy than I ever remember seeing in the coaching world. And I think the interesting shift to me has been I feel like there's more older coaches now who are willing to pass on information and to help the younger guys. Yeah. And that's not to say that they didn't exist in the past. It didn't feel like it and, you know, it's super exciting about, you know, the platform that you have in the position that both Mike and I have is being able to help younger coaches. Honestly, that's as much fun as it is coaching. Yeah. It's coaching in a different respect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like they just see the game a little bit different than we do too. And there's value to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a huge value to that. No. So it's been really cool kind of like seeing the younger guys like bopping around and I'm like, man, I think I have that energy in me somewhere. It's a little bit harder to get out and see if they're still bopping around on Thursday. Yeah. Sorry. They can demo the skating drills. Yeah. Exactly. Well, thanks so much, guys. We appreciate your time. Thanks, though. Thanks. Thanks, though. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
This week Topher is flying solo and recorded LIVE from Nashville with Mike Berra and Kevin Muller of the Jr. Preds organization. Both have worked at multiple levels to grow the game and we had a fantastic conversation about community hockey, non-traditional markets, player development, and what it takes to make an impact as a coach in today’s youth hockey environment.
In this episode we talk about:
— The importance of building relationships as a coach
— Defining culture and the role it plays in a team’s success
— Preparation & being a detail-oriented coach
— Taking individual skill and having it translate to team structure & success
AND SO MUCH MORE!
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